i would not be surprised if we see stuff like the r-74, 9x and others an update before 5th gens maybe
Is it’s flight performance/loadout really that terrible, or did you mean to type 14.3?
4 BVR missiles (internally) but yeah pretty bad flight performance is my understanding.
Players have found many decently good sources, but Gaijin’s standard is arbitrarily high. They won’t even accept official manufacturer’s website, export version marketing, or book written by an actual designer as secondary sources. Gaijin’s implementation is often so ridiculously wrong, yet they rarely show their sources. They will accept “coffee table books” but almost never websites.
For example, many players say ingame 120C5 is marginally better or even worse than 120B (+range,-maneuverability, both slight differences). It doesn’t take a genius to realize the mismatch between reality and WT implementation.
In any case you can expect frequent “NAB”, report completely ignored, report acknowledged but unfixed for years, “submitted as suggestion”, and so on. Also, some report managers are biased and selectively hateful. If you spend too much time on the CBR website you’ll become either frustrated or depressed or demoralized, maybe all at the same time.
Okay but let’s stick to what’s been talked about. What has been submitted about the PL-12’s range that Gaijin rejected when it came to official manufacturer’s websites, or any of the other sources you’ve mentioned?
Its that terrible.
Its FM is similar ish to an F-16… Maybe
its weapon fit might be as limited as 2+4. Or with a boat load of extra drag and completely destroying any pre-tense of stealth, it can carry more on the wings.
If you look at it like a strike aircraft then again, it has a weaker loadout than most at and around that BR.
In a 1v1 vs something like a Typhoon, the onyl thing it has going for it is the stealth.
If that isnt modeled, or heavily mitigated for gameplay reasons… its not going to be that strong
Personally. I would stick with the Typhoon over it, unless the stealth was excellent and I really needed the SEAD, this is so long as the Typhoon doesnt get Brimstone 3s or Spear-3s with LOAL
The F-35 gets massively over hyped but its actually not that good of an aircraft IRL outside of SEAD
What exactly would make you think the F-35 is not a good aircraft IRL?
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What makes you think its a good aircraft?
Its loadout is very limited compared to any Gen 4.5
Its equipment (Radar, RWR, EW, etc etc) isnt any better than most Gen 4.5
Its FM is very limited, barely supersonic most of the time. As far as I am aware, it cant even supercruise.
The only thing really going for it is its stealth. Which is fine if you only need to deliver a small number of weapons onto a target. Good for SEAD, but pretty mediocre for anything else.
For 99% of missions though, any Euro-Delta will do just as well if not better, usually a lot cheaper
Not a big deal IRL as real combat is not a 12v12 deathmatch and most jets that can carry a bunch if missiles will irl never take off with that many for an actual mission.
Just because 2 things are considered AESA radars don’t make them just as capable as the F-35s radar.
once again not a big deal irl planes rarely break mc 1 in real combat
At the end of the day the most useful things in modern combat are stealth, Situational awareness and bvr all things the F35 Excels at if the Eurofighter was better the UK would not have bothered getting F-35s in the first place.
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Typhoon’s during OP Shader were operating with 2+4 weapons fit plus fuel tanks plus A2G loadouts, usually 4x Paveway IVs and 6x Brimstones.
F-35 cant do that.
And you are just assuming the F-35s radar is more capable? We dont know, but F-35 cant gimball its radar like ECRS Mk2 can.
The F-35 didnt replace the Typhoon though, it replaced the Sea Harrier and even then, its highly controversial whether it was worth it. Especially given the US went back on the deal regarding allowing us to intergrate our own kit onto it.
Stealth is niche though, useful, yes, but not the be all and end all of combat. and in the context of war thunder. if you take away or mitigate that stealth heavily. What does it have left?
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Well the point was if the plane is good irl and for sure the Eurofighter is a better multi role platform but keep mind you need to actually get to a target alive to use that payload in the first place you only need 1 bomb to hit to take out a target. and If both aircraft are equipped with the same missiles The plane that can shoot first usually wins.
Also every country on earth wouldn’t be investing in stealth if it was niche.
and like I said, F-35 is good for SEAD sure. But if you dont need the stealth, like saying, providing CAS? then why bother taking an aircraft with a smaller weapons load?
You know that makes it sound like Gaijin has classified documents right? A theoretical weapon we don’t even know isn’t just vaporware?
If the general public doesn’t have it. but gaijin does. Then that seems mighty strange. Even if it’s some unlikely scenario where some really insane collector was able to get some strange non-classified piece. It’s still a completely theoretical weapon since it’s never been test fired.
With that logic, Add the AIM-7F Multishot to the phantom, give the Amraam with the Ramjet.
Give the AIM-120E even though we have NO clue what changes it makes besides being better because we now have proof that it exists.
A good 90% of the bug fixes is fixing spaghetti programmed code that probably goes back to 2009. Mixed with shoehorning in Tanks, modern jets and infantry.
The last 10% is not what I call a “bug fix” But a historical correction. And those that’ve reported have been sitting for years.
But we need to make new slop planes that won’t perform correctly for money! Sure, and you continue the degradation of player confidence for short term gain. Why should I spend money when I know the aircraft is going to be a rush job, and not made with the care to keep it accurate?
You can see this live when the F-4E was added. They panicked because they didn’t know what block model they wanted it to be so they cycled between an agile eagle and hard wing phantom and so now we’re left with a frankenstein monster of a DMASS phantom with a 60’s cockpit missing it’s digitalization upgrades.
Same thing with the F-5E and F-5C. F-5C shouldn’t even have flares, F-5E is a composite of every single F-5 variant because Gaijin knew they could shove the plane into multiple trees if they made it good.
Mig 21bis is overperforming in Acceleration and turn rates which gaijin hilariously says “Da comrade, dis fine.” Even though it’s rating better than the F-4E when that shouldn’t be the case.
Or gaijin making just straight up speculative changes, like with the P-47 flaps they just did recently. Basically taking a huge steaming dump all over the aircraft.
Literally just recently with the AMBER racks. When the Golden Eagle was added it was the worst 14.3 in the entire game, only deciding later to add the AMBER racks. Meanwhile the Russian SU-27SM and Su-30SM got belly racks that they never carried before and have been only carried by the Su-35.
Or the F-15E missing it’s AESA
Or any. ANY ANNNYYY changes that make the Abrams better. This was a funny thread to look through.
Funny part about the F-15E is that if they gave it AESA, they would have a reason to move it up, helping with decompression, and you would have an identifiably different version compared to the F-15C Golden Eagle where you may not get AMBER racks but you give up extra missiles for going Mach 2.
The simple solution is to not rip vehicles apart kitbashing them for “balance” But then say “But we’re realistic!” If it’s going to be OP and you think it will be OP. Here’s the solution:
Do. Not. Add. It.
not really the point tho is it, in that kind of environment you mite as well use an A10 over a Eurofighter then, my point is simply that in its role as a fighter the F-35 is good aircraft for modern air to air combat. a plane being worse at cas doesn’t somehow make it not a good aircraft.
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No not necessarily. Gaijin collects public documents as well and just never publicly shares them with the community.
If a public member has it, doesn’t mean the Warthunder community has it. In fact, I’ve been shown things that as far as I’m aware of, only Gaijin has when it comes to declassified documents. For instance, Gaijin years ago changed VT1 missile from 35G to 50G, when I pressed Smin for the reason of this change, since I could not find anything stating 50G publicly, he showed me this:
You can’t find this publicly on the internet.
How can you confidently state this?
Because if no one has known proof of it ever being test fired, Gaijin doesn’t present the evidence or sources of why they added it or make changes, mixed with their prior history, it’s easier via Occam’s Razor to conclude that gaijin is just speculating again.
But if that’s the case, and you can use brochures as evidence.
I kindly provide the U.S. Air force website that states the F-15E should be capable of reaching up to Mach 2.5 or higher.
Meanwhile the F-15E in-game is much slower barely able to exist in the Mach 2.2 range.
They have made thousands of changes or additions without presenting evidence or sources. They have internal researchers who pass forward documents and they already commented that the task of presenting all the documents for the public is too much effort (which I believe).
Lack of presented evidence is not a claim of its own.
Gaijin already commented on this, have you not bothered to see why it is the case?
Some early EX prototypes got MAWS and the MAWS bumps are still there
I wouldn’t be surprised if F-15EX ends up getting MAWS then seeing as how the German EFT got IRST even though that was probably worse.
In no particular order:
- PL-12 range error
- PL-12 air-to-air missile range data mistake.
- PL12 air-to-air missle modelling error
- PL-12 should changed to SD-10
- SD10A/PL-12 Performance Error
Pl-12 (SD-10) Range Incorrect - PL-12 Incorrect made
Some of the bug reports provided here have better sources than others, some sources are found in multiple reports. There is not a wealth of information about Chinese military technology, but most of the sources cited are legitimate. Also, without even having to look at sources, a <40 km range in War Thunder and a 70 km range IRL is a massive mistake.