if your answer is the Gripen A, F-15A, F4F ICE, etc. Then you are saying that the Su-27 should move to 13.3 because other 13.3 aircraft are under BRed
Just because Gripen and Typhoon do okay with BOL. Doesnt mean the 4x Tornados, 3x Viggens, 3x Harriers or even the F-14B do okay with BOL in its current state. In fact they nearly could all do with dropping down in BR as a direct result of the current state of BOL.
The better solution then would be to limited the F-18C to 2-4x BOL. Rather than nerfing aircraft with only 2 because one other aircraft has 8.
Its a bit like saying the R-27ER on the Mig-29 should be limited to Mach 1 because the Su-27 can carry 6.
Much weaker actually in anything but point blank and even then, only if doesnt decide to loft.
Barely. SAAF Gripen C is widely considered the weakest 13.7 in game right now.
I dont recall ever seeing or even really fighting a M2K prior to that buff. Nor do I recall a single post describing them as even slightly good. Maybe they were average, but they werent good.
If you knew how to mitigate MP, you could stil get kills. Especailly with an IOG equipped SARH. But I basically didnt play the Gripen C for those first 6 months, the gameplay was boring as hell and the 9Ms were even mroe useless back then. Having to fly on the deck, because the moment you even dared go above 150 ft, you died to an R-27ER.
Back then it was, due to having half decent BOL and 100m MP. Betwene the BOL nerfs and reduction in MP. Su-27 probably stands a fair chance against the Gripen A. Though even back then, It wasnt so completely one sided that the Su-27 could never win. It wasnt like the Tornado F3 vs Mig-29 we had for the entire year before.
Really?
I always considered it much better than the Sea harrier FA2 which was disappointingly buggy. (still is more than a year on, but at least its got a usable RWR now, that only took 6 months) and the Su-27SM was still stronger than the F3 Late and F4F ICE. Let alone the J-8F and J11.
So Blufor gets air superiority and super manoeuvrable fighters, but Redfor can’t have anything comparable?
To clarify, BOL pods supplement built-in dispensers, not replace them. They use smaller, low-visibility IR decoys, so matching large-calibre flares isn’t accurate. This “nerf” hits aircraft like the Mirage 4000 hardest, since they rely on BOL alone and lose both capacity and effectiveness compared to peers.
This sounds a lot like past reactions to certain very long-range missile claims. People doubted the speed back then too, but disbelief alone doesn’t make it unrealistic. Changing DL here would also nerf the AIM-7P, which already struggles.
No it wasn’t. It just wasn’t as remarkable as Brit mains thought it should be.
Double scan bug was fixed as soon as Typhoon was released. Also TWS+ was implemented because of Typhoon.
Su-27 had to cope with double scan bug since ARH update until it was fixed with Typhoon update.
Typhoon mains never got to experience what a truly awful radar was.
It did not. The flight model has been largely the same since it’s release. There have only been relatively minor changes since it’s introduction. The flight model was largely resolved in the first two weeks after the patch.
It’s also not currently underperforming by any notable amount currently. There are more areas that it overperforms than underperforms; notably at higher altitudes and higher speeds. Even in it’s current iteration it was a superior dogfighter to the Rafale (when it was erroneously buffed in turn performance).
It is literally just emoloting proper notching mechanics and understanding how they work in the game.
The only plane that would suffer because of BOL would be the Tornado and that is because of the planes abysmal turn rate. The R-27ER would miss but your loop or split S would intersect with the ground.
That’s just a plane performance issue. Not anyone’s fault that IRL Tornado kinematics were hotdog water. The planes barely more maneuverable than a MiG-25.
I’ve literally never been spawn camped by F-4F ICE while playing on blue side in at 13.0.
Such as the f2, F15A and Jas39A etc
Are now you gonna tell me that a plane with pretty much no usable radar missiles should be 13.3 too?
Unfortunately for most of them, their armament loadout doesn’t allow this
How is it much weaker? Sure R77 pulls more, and has a bigger warhead but besides that they’re more similar than you would imagine
What do you mean barely? You have the countermeasure count to notch and flare every single missile, and on top of having an infinetely superior flight model.
It was objectively one of the best 13.7s at the time and still is.
How exactly?
By the splash damage of the missile’s warhead?
Only the phoenix could (maybe) damage you if it got closed enough
It was boring because the plane would play itself with no competetion, much like the rafale now
How when that’s arguably when the 9M was at it’s peak?
Yes, if you go and watch yt videos of that patch, you will see that the 27SM wasn’t generally praised much
On the contrary, it was on the lower end compared to other platforms and their missiles
If we go exclsuively USA, Britain and Israel vs USSR, Germany and China.
US gets F-15A, F18A & C, F-16A
Britian gets Sea harrier FA2
Israel gets Kfir C10 and Netz (F16A)
vs
Germany gets the F4F ICE, Mig-29G and F-18C
Soviets get Yak-141 and Mig-29
China gets F-16 and J-8F.
That seems fairly balanced to me actually in terms of maneuvable aircraft.
With F-2/F-15J, Gripen A, Mirage 2k/4K and F-16/Mig-29 being able to appear on either team.
Though I would also argue that several bluefor aircraft like the F-15A are under BRed and should be at 13.3. Which is why a 13.3 bracket would be better than making 13.0 even more compressed that it already is.
Throw in a Mig-29G-esk Premium for the soviets and something equivalent for China and it would be fine with the Su-27 being 13.3 alongside its peers.
Really depends on the aircraft. Torando F3 for example, Only had 32 internal CMs, I dont really consider that enough without BOL at any BR. Especially not 13.0 for the F3 Late. and for aircraft like the Harriers, they need every flare they can get.
No… This is wrong. They are not flares at all. They release a cloud of pyrophoric material that creates a massive IR signature capable physically blocking the entire aircraft from view in rear-aspect. This effect is how it defeats IIR missiles. The only downside is their short “burn” time compared to actual flares.
Mirage 4K does not use BOL. No idea what is uses, but it isnt BOL. Otherwise it would have 320x Countermeasure (BOL) and not 112x Large Calibre Countermeasures
AIM-7 isn’t all that, it’s FM isn’t bad at all but it gets beaten WVR by the F-2 and Gripen, which have equal or better IR’s. I think the Gripen has HMD too. It shouldnt go down but it shouldn’t be 13.3 either
All 3 aircraft probably should be at 13.3 with a 13.3 bracket and 2 of which (3 if you inlcude the F-15J) can all appear on Redfor just as often as they appear on bluefor.
Right? So buff the aircraft instead. like say, buffing BOL up to IRL levels? Throw a few Phimat pods in there as well for things like the Tornado F3s.
The problem with R-Darter (may have been fixed, not used them in 10 months?) is their loft profiles were buggy as hell. It rather than just going for the target that was 5-10km in front of it. It would climb sky high like the target was 50km away and could miss. You had to babysit the missiles really carefully.
Like I said, I know multiple people that just run 6+0 or 4+2 fits on the SAAF Gripen C because they cant be bothered with the R-Darters. Persoanlly. I havent touched it since the Typhoon was added and only really played a handful of matches prior to that and after it got the R-Darters. Did okay, but was annoying to use.
Again… BOL, not that good half the time. Large CM count is pretty much the only thing going for it. When compared to aircraft like the F-16C, Mirage 2K, J-10A, J-11B, F-15C. its pretty outclassed.
(note. Im not actually advocating for it to go down in BR at all. I think 13.7 is about right for it, but if we get another round of decompression. Lots of things would go up, but I dont think the SAAF Gripen C would move all that much. even the Gripen Cs with AMRAAM arent fairing too well at the moment.
Again. I do not recall it really being played all that much when it was first added. Iirc the MICA EM were a buggy mess for months and it only got really really OP when the MICA EM was buffed beginning of this year? I think. ( i cant rememebr when that buffed oocur now)
MP can be mitigated by angling the missile so it comes down on the target. You could sometimes get this to work by lofitng the missile when you fired it, but works best if fired from up high. The same applied way back then. Now I rarely dared do this in the F3, because I would always eat an R-27ER, but if you had the R-27ER… Id have sat off the deck and fired down onto people.
Still works today btw, even mroe so that it did before. I rarely hug the deck in most of the aircraft I play, unless its a mud mover like the Tonka>
Nah, was also boring because it was limited to IR only.
9Ms were even buggier getting lock back then. These days they will semi- work in all-aspects, though lock range still massively underperforming, but im fairly certain they changed something because back then. I only ever got an IR lock in rear-aspect.
Was still stronger than the J-11, Sea Harrier FA2, AV-8B+, Tornado F3 Late, J-8F and F4F ICE added or upgraded with Fox-3 in the same update.
It isn’t all of that, but it gets the job done and is also found on most of the sarh platforms, and while yes F2, F16A and jas39 can beat it in a dogfight, the 15A can also outperform pretty much everything else that it encounters.
HMD is hardly worth mentioning with anything equipped with Aim-9M and you can achieve the same marginally off-boresight shots with ACM modes.
How often do you fire Aim-9Ms more than a few degrees off-boresight in something like the F-15E? I rarely do for the Typhoon and its more of QoL thing in ARB than an actual advantage. In ASB, its even harder to use.
Even doing this, the warhead wasn’t big enough to do damage effectively in a 100m radius, hell even today i can multipath 27ERs by flying at 20m of alt completely unfazed.
The same missiles that would grant you the win?
Don’t recall this happening often, or at all
Yea, but those nations also had other platforms as backup
Usa had 16C and 15C
Britain had saaf gripen etc
Russia only had the su27SM
Besised that, the only nation that suffered were china (because gaijin should have added the J11B instead of the A) and germany, since the only other fox 3 platform they could have gotten (of the top of my head) was the typhoon
Reading some of the answers…theres ppl that shouldnt even be allowed to speal…bunch of RB players talking nonsense…zombering in Sim doesnt make you a sim player…also the ridiculous guy claiming the R27ER outperforming fox3?ban this dude from the game and from life too…
A direct hit is a direct hit. Just because its not got the warhead of an Aim-54 doesnt mean it wont kill. I’ve been getting aces in the Tornado F3 recently in ARB by firing down onto people hiding in Multipathing. Its really funny Especially against the 12.7 and 13.0 aircraft i have no buissness even really seeing.
Not really. Aim-9M was better back then solely because people hadnt mastered how to defeat it, soon as they did, R-73 and Magic II were a lot stronger, just like now.
The same thing happened with AMRAAM. Was the best because people didnt know how to defend, so long ranged shots were effective. These days. R-77 are probably overall better and defiently R-77-1s are a lot better given that long ranged shots only work against AFK and bad players.
Even to this day. I dont really consider them an all-aspect missile. Its best to use them in rear-aspect.
Neither China or Germany had anything better and as I already explained. R-Darters are tenatively worse than R-77, with a much smaller missile count.
Right. Exactly. Typhoon andRafale was gunna come the moment the Su-27SM and F-15C MSIP II were added.
It was the only thing that European nations could get.
Still surprised the Gripen E hasnt been added yet.
Doesn’t the Navy version of Agile Eagle cause more speed bleed, on top of the S being a heavier naval phantom? I think the J and S could be the same BR without much issue
