To specify, I was flying solely by instruments for that mock battle.
They are not.
Planes get labeled at 10km and missiles get labeled under 10km AND as long as their motor is burning.
Phoenix launched from 40km wont be marked neither in RB nor SB.
Radar is bad when compared to F-16s/F-15s. Its sufficient when compared to radar on F-14As.
RWR, as long as it can detect the band of the F-14As radar, which im nearly sure it can do, and can detect launched missile, which again im nearly sure it can, is sufficient to dodge phoenixes at long ranges.
In a real match, when you notch/crank a Phoenix, you can be going to another one that is not yet in your RWR because it didn’t go pitbull … go and try the Phoenix spam in a Mig29
Also if you shot a 27ER,the most probable is you shot it on someone else, and you are not defending.
Granted, this is the one argument i cant properly counter.
Yes, by cranking one phoenix you could unknowingly be turning straight into other one coming at you from different ditection - this is problem limited to sim battles and i cant say anything against it.
In RB most of the phoenix spam happens in the first 5 minutes in match and at those ranges they are pretty much coming from one direction.
With all of the above being said tho, even IF you are turning into another AIM-54 that is yet to go pitbull, it is still a 17G missile and evasion is possible.
In SB the missile can come fromanywhere. It’s not as silly as RB, where you know when and where the enemy is coming from.
This is added situational awareness that you get from RB mission design that you don’t get in SB. Then there is the issue of workload, which reduces the amount of attention you can invest into situational awareness in sim compared to RB.
Why is it always RB players that spam threads of other modes and general threads and make them about their third rate gamemode? Is it arrogance? Selfimportance?
Sure but almost everything is possible. There us a woman that survived a drop from 10.000 feet, so that is possible. Possible doesn’t mean sh*t, we need the likelihood to make assessments.
Of course it’s posible, evading 27ER is posible too …
The thing is that when you are in a Mig29 you have to be evading phoenixes since takeoff, and the time you are doing that, you are not going agresive on other players, and while you evade, you are an easy target to other players. You have to be fighting misiles that are pitbull, and also players.
When A mig29 launches an ER, he doesn’t see anything else on radar, is very vulnerable to other people. When I play the F-16A, I kill a lot of people on the Mig29 that make long distance launches.
As UnknowDistance says, when you learn how to play the Mig29, you go radar off most of the time, and you only shot 27ER at short distance.
BTW, the mig29 RWR doesn’t filter friendlies, so when you are getting a lock, you don’t know if it’s an F-14 or a friendly Mig29, and the same for the pings. Also when the phoenix goes pitbull, you don’t know if it’s an ARH misile alone, or if it’s an SARH and the enemy is close.
IR only F-16A? Idea of removing markers from RB as possible fix to IR only planes at top tier was floatin around recently, this seems to confirm that as workable solution.
Phoenixes cant possibly have such ranges as to threaten player on take off as soon as the gane starts, even in sim
Lol what kind of strawman is that?
Are you offended by me calling RB third rate? And know you think it means i do that because you think i see SB as real flying?lol, no AB is better than RB. Just stay in your lane. And RB players do it to AB threads just as much.
Dude you are the one trying to capture a thread for RB.
So how am i arrogant? I said RB is bad nothing more. To be arrogant i would have to elevate myself over you, which is what you are doing because you think your knowledge of a completely different gamemode qualifies you to talk about SB. I am not talking about stuff i don’t know anything about.
No they are not, they are saying it is harder to dodge in SB compared to RB due to the reduced situational awareness in SB compared to RB. Making the missile more effective in that mode, which necessitates BR corrections.
Then you come here telling them how they are wrong without having experience of the gamemode differences… Telling the SB Community what is true about SB, while only using RB knowledge… That’s arrogance.
Anyway, same offer as to the other guy - if i can manage to figure out how to force cockpit view and remove markers in custom battles while allowing me to fly with my current controls, id be up to actually having a mock battle between MiG-29G and F-14A.
Lol, so my idea of what you think is correct. You really are triggered because i called RB third rate. That’s all you have to go on… great. I also like how you saw an attack on RB as a personal attack on you. So you had to clap back.
Here is the truth:
Arcade (!!!) is the best gamemode of WT. RB is third rate because it is bad as a game, not because it doesn’t portray flying.
So now think about it rationally:
When you bring an argument that is based on RB into SB, without initially telling, you give an impression about SB, which is false and is actually a perspective on RB. So a third party will see that as a SB perspective. This should be making clear that you need to stay away from the parts on the forum that is about your mode. You are hindering change in a mode you don’t give a f*ck about and now can’t just step back, apologize and leave, noooooo… you try to make up how playing in first püerson without markers it totally the same and that your view is totally valid… just step back
The argument is simply that they create persistent pressure in the game that keeps you from being able to reliably exploit the advantages of the R-27ER. And it’s a much more persistent presence in SB because of the team imbalance and the fact that there are respawns.
It’s not like Air RB where everyone that wants to Phoenix spam has launched all of them in the first 2 minutes of the game and you are more or less done defending against them at the start of the match. A lot of the times I am launching them at guys that have freshly spawned while I am at Mach 1+ at 10km. That missile is going pit-bull on you while you are waiting for planes to render on your radar screen and if you defend it…I am following up with an Aim-7 before you even lock me with your radar.
Yes, but at the same time it’s not some immense pressure. You need to take action, but once you do, you will be fine.
You will lose position and be at a disadvantage, but the AIM-54 itself isn’t OP. It just happens to suppress the only advantage MiG-29 has. MiG-29 is just bad.
Imo the bigger problem is that Russia doesn’t have a heavy fighter like Su-27 at 13.0, but an Su-27 with 6 R-27ERs with reduced multipathing would be too strong at 13.0.
I already stated what I would change, so I won’t dump another wall of text.
This is an issue of snowball effect and small maps. Possibly insufficient AA defenses too, but SAM sites would require more thought put into it, so you can’t just abuse it and escape every fight using them.
It isn’t the cause for imbalance, it is it’s consequence.
Also U.S. planes will always have more players than they theoretically should have, based on how good they are, because of their popularity. If all planes were perfectly balanced, people would still pick an F-14, 15 or 16 over MiG-29 or Su-27.
you are ever so slightly adding more variables to the original argument. Since the discussion with both you and @cercata has been civil so far (minus the now blocked dude) and i would like to keep it that way, i am going to assume you are just expanding on what you originally said and not changing the goalpost as many others often do.
Yes, I agree with your point - AIM-54 put pressure onto the enemy.
But the pressure is not as high as to completly deny advantages of R-27ERs, due to limitations of the missile. 17G pull of AIM-54 is just 2Gs more than AIM-7C/D. And ive heard literally no one calling those missiles good. I already explained that during the mock fight i was able to crank all phoenixes, even with such outdated piece of tech as SPO-15.
AIM-54s put deadly pressure onto you only if you ignore the rather loud beeping of your RWR. which is often the case with zombers, but thats separate issue.
At such highly advantageous position, you dont even need AIM-54s or AIM-7F/Ms. Even DF sparrows would be deadly.
Put MiG-29 with R-27ERs in the same position and those same freshly spawned guys are also dead.
One thing cercata actually had a point i couldnt counter is this:
Because, in order for enemy to launch his phoenix against me, he needs to spike me. Even if its for few seconds in order to launch AIM-54 and have it fly towards me in IOG, i still got the beep on my RWR so i know there is something and its approximate direction.
HOWEVER
if im getting spiked constantly by search radars, even friendly ones, It will be much harder to discern whenever im getting spiked at random by team mate or F-14 in TWS mode.
EVEN THEN, once the AIM-54 goes pitbull, i will be notified that ive been hardlocked and as such I can take defensive measure.
That assumes the F-14 doesnt immidiately follow up with AIM-7s, which werent part of the original argument, because the original comment that made me join the discussion ever mentions only AIM-54s:
or the F-14 doenst go nose cold and ambushes me from a closer range.
Which is, coincidentaly, what happened during that one of the mock dogfights i had during which phoenix nearly managed to shoot me down, and only by me going quickly full defense and chaffing it didnt connect.
I am not adding more variables. My very first reply to you mentioned that the F-14 can carry a good mixture of Aim-7F and Aim-54.
The Aim-54 is on a platform that is also qualitatively better than basically every other 12.3 aircraft in the game outside of the Mirage 2000.
Moving the Su-27 down to 13.0 would be more balanced than having the F-14A at 12.3 BR.
This issue already happens on the largest maps possible due to poor design.
And keeping the game imbalanced in favor of USA players is one of the biggest reasons that they are as popular as they are. Look at what happened with Su-27 vs F-15 introduction; the Su-27 was made into a missile bus and the F-15 was made into a dogfighter. And now the F-15 sits at a lower BR in both Air RB and Air SB.
F-14A has weaker engines than F-4J, while being heavier. It has the same RWR as F-4J. It also has AIM-9Hs, a copy paste of AIM-9Gs, which F-4J carries.
F-14A should have a lower BR than any other gen 4, it’s noticeably weaker than F-14B and other gen 4s. Tech-wise it even feels like it’s closer to F-4J, even the paint job shows it. It has 20% less thrust than F-14B (or F-14B has 25% more), and F-14B should be lower than Su-27, which deserves to be a 13.0 after some adjustments.
MiG-29 is worse than F-14B and F-16A/ADF, but should be buffed, instead of being moved down to 12.3, next to F-14A. As I said earlier F-16 ADF should be 12.7, it’s worse than F-15A and F16A and ADF should have the same BR.
I don’t get why are you even upset about this, when there’s no bracket where 12.3 is on top.
The issue is that even the biggest maps are small.
Majority will play the best planes, but some will play their favourite nation regardless.
If you had 10 players, and U.S. and Russian planes were perfectly balanced, 6 of them would pick USA and 4 of them would pick Russia. To make it an even 5/5 split, Russian planes would have to be like 10% better.
Yes I know. I can’t speak for others, but at least I expected the exact opposite and got very disappointed once I got to top tier. I think both sides were disappointed here, F-15 fans wanted to do some BVR and Su-27 fans wanted to dogfight, do some cobras and shit. F-15 fans were complaining about R-27ER (myself included), while Su-27 fans were complaining about Su-27’s bad flight model.
The F-14A has more thrust at high speeds and less thrust at low speeds. The airframe is also lighter so the maneuverability between the two is a wash.
I am not upset about it.
I am more just annoyed at USA mains consistently insisting that every single plane that they have needs to be the absolute best for its battle rating bracket.
USA has had better top tier planes than USSR for over a year now.
The F-15A is much better than the Su-27 in Air SB. It is the best 13.0 plane in the game outside of French F-16A with Aim-9M and Jas-39A.