I struggled way more with the FG.1 than the FGR.2, for some reason, but even grinding for the camouflages wasn’t bad. I definitely would like to see them get 9Ls at 11.7. Any less would be too much since they have a PDV radar and cracked engines.
They just suck, man. They did suck IRL.
So compared to the US F-4J (at the same BR) it has fewer and worse missiles, no HMD, but more countermeasures and better engines (at low altitudes, but worse at high altitudes).
Weapons systems dominate the BR at this tier, so I really don’t think slightly more thrust and more CMs really equal the F-4J having 50% more Sparrows (of the F variety, so better missiles too) and an HMD for dogfighting. I think the F-4J is objectively a better aircraft so the FGR.2 and FG.1 should be moved down to 11.7 to reflect that.
And maybe not restrict them to 2x AIM-9D for the grind when they’re often flying against F-15s and AMRAAMs… That’s just cruel.
I don’t know, the Bucc S2B struggle bus definitely gives it a run for the FGR.2’s money…
Mostly, it must be said, because you get beaten to the bases by everyone (mostly premium fighters carrying bombs and not helping your team at all!) so then you have to mill around the battlefield for 5 mins till they respawn before you can start to earn RP as much RP as you can before you’re deleted because there are no fighters left because they’re all cos-playing as bombers… Grrrr.
As for the British Phantoms, I just don’t get why they don’t AT LEAST get 4x AIM-9Ds to start. Then unlock the AIM-9Gs 2 at a time.
Though tbh, considering the rate you get up-tiered, getting AIM-9Gs as stock and then unlocking the different radar missiles sounds better.
Aren’t they essentially the same? What’s the difference?
I’ve unlocked both, just only played the FGR.2 (if only because it didn’t have the dorky extended front landing gear of the FG.1).
I’m trying to work out what’s the least painful grinder of the rank 7 British planes, but they all seem pretty bad so far (I have unlocked everything except the F-111C Aardvarkary-doo, most have only the tier 1 mods, so basic weapons for the most part).
Buc S2B wasn’t too bad for me, though that does come from playing it mostly in sim.
But yeah, at a minimum the FGR2 needs a new stock loadout, what it has stock at the BR it has is brutal.
FGR2 should get 9Ls and remain at 12.0 with 2-4 9Gs and 2-4 Aim-7 stock.
FG1 needs to drop to 11.7 but also get better stock loadouts
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Only difference in game is the FG1 has different landing gear, IRL they should have greater differences in loadout
Maybe I just unlocked the FGR.2 way before the current meta lmao idk
FGR-2 when it was added faced other F-4s and MiG 21s and it was good it was fast.
Now it faces other F-4s, MiG 23/29 Su-27, F-16 and F-14 etc
It cant do anything to any of these jets.
You cant dogfight, you cant run and you cant defend against missiles.
It’s a struggle bus
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Tbf, the bucc in sim is good either way, enough bombs to take two bases plus either two sidewinders or enough countermeasures to sink a battleship, all on a pretty fast aircraft.
Well, let’s say that better acceleration at low altitude is better for that BR range, because most of the match is played on the deck. Similarly 4xSparrows are enough for opportunistic shots I wouldn’t play 6x7s because i prefer F&F IRs after merge. I think the major difference between F and E2 is the range, simlarly with Skyflash (DF).
More CMs , is more survivability… especially in uptiers that you need to be pre active and you’ll waste many CMs.
HMD in 4J is not really co operating with armament. I mean… you can pull shots, it does its job… the missiles are not that modern to take serious advantage of that. But, ok , it’s a good point.
It wasn’t supposed to go against them anyway. When they made Tornado F , they were in need for something better for that reason. Now in game…ok.
I’ve said many times… Armament combinations should adjust a planes BR. Just because of the reason to not give you a technological disadvantage more than it should have been. You’ll still be though…example against F-14A early , they have same era armament. Go against 14B and it will become a very different story…
It has no noticeable increase in speed or acceleration over the J-79 engined Phantoms.
Excluding take off in a race they can catch you and keep up with. The drag coefficient for the FGR-2 is off the charts.
You have to take a gun pod which is draggy and bulky as your missiles are unreliable and you are never dogfighting to get that rear aspect shot for your IR missiles
Skyflash is good and you can do work with it, but it’s not stronger than an Aim7F, PD Radar used to be a selling point now everyone has one and in many cases better.
Balancing on weapons is interesting I feel it would be abused with guys loading up F-16s with 6 Aim9Ls and dominating at 11.7 an F-14A with 6 Aim7F is just as deadly at a lower BR bracket
The low end acceleration and two-circle performance is just very sliiiightly superior on the UK Phantoms. They can actually afford to get slow alongside something like an F-4S and start accelerating back up to corner speed while the F-4S will be pulling extra AoA and staying slow. It saved my butt today in a match-deciding final dogfight.
This does rely on the enemy being bad and actually getting slow, alongside ditching the gunpod for a drop tank and lower internal fuel. Its safe to assume most US phantom players are trash, and they always use their gunpod so you can use that against them.
Nevertheless the UK Phantoms are the worst of all the pulse doppler phantoms, they’re very obsolescent now. No point in using them when the F-4S exists. At least the Tornado F3 has a ton of CMs and improved missiles for the same BR.
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If your talking about the British phantoms
it has the same amount of missiles (8 max) but skyflash instead of AIM-7F, no HMD, 30 more countermeasures and better engines.
its a good amount more thrust and having 30 more countermeasures is very nice. the thrust is very nice as the phantom is heavy and bleeds speed like crazy.
this is not possible, the F-15C and E are at BR 13.7 and 14.0 respectively, at most they can face the F-15A with AIM-7M
F-15A is 13.0
And
You can meet aim120/derby at 13.0 too. AV8B+, Kfir C10, JA37DI, Sea Harrier FA2.
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Also generates far more drag and the gun pod adds to that.
There is not a single reason you would take a Brit FGR-2 over a US F-4S or at the same BR a Tornado F.3
I think (and I could be wrong) all Phantoms at 12.0 or higher have the slats which mean they can dogfight reasonably well. With the exception of the FGR2, FG1 and F4J(UK)
The FGR2 and FG1 do have the extra CMs and bigger engines, but that engine power still renders it slower to most other aircraft it faces, its even slower than the Tornado at the same BR unless you are on min fuel and no gunpod. The extra wieght and drag also limits your dogfighting potential even further.
The presence of Multipathing totally eliminates its entire reason for being at 12.0 which is the PD radar and even then, again, its one of the weakest at that BR range.
When you compare to the F-4S or F4J (US) they are rather under-powered and see some pretty insane aircraft in uptiers like the F-15A, Su-27 and F4F ICE. Even not looking that far above, the Mig-29s and F-16s can make a free kill out of it rather easily.
F4J(UK) especially as its identical to the F4J(US) (same engine, same CMs, etc) bar the Skyflash’s but has neitehr HMD or slats and yet remains at the same BR.
Solution. F4J(UK) and FG1 to 11.7. This puts them on par with the Mig-23MLD which is their closest equal. FGR2 remains at 12.0 but gains its missing Aim-9Ls. Throw in some wing tanks as well, and you would have a far more balanced experience for the Phantoms.
There is just no reason to use them once you have the Tornado F3 which is faster, has a better radar, has a better RWR, has better weapons and has more CMs. Only real advantage of the Phantoms over them is slightly better turn performance and the easier to use gun.
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I know, i said that, it only has AIM-7Ms and AIM-9Ms tho
Yes i know, the the AV8B and Sea harrier are both subsonic, and the sea harrier might be the worst plane in the game, the Ja37D bleeds speed like crazy yet still cannot turn, not to mention its rwr sucks, and the Kfir only gets 4 of the worst ARH missiles in game. the only thing derby has going for it is its turn rate and its an ARH missile, its range sucks
This is all true, the Tornado cannot turn and the british phantoms are faster, but yes, the Tornado is better.
Well, i made a suggestion (it hasn’t appeared yet, needs approval ) where i explain what i said here.
It won’t be possible to be abused like this.
In the suggestion , i’m saying that it doesn’t matter if you have 1 or 10 missile of that kind (AIM-9L for example) . It matters that you’ll use it. The combination is up to the player’s liking.
I don’t remember the stock configuration for the planes …
I’ll go with F-14 IRIAF. It has stock 2x AIM-9P and 2x AIM-54. They can change that and start it with 2xAIM-9P and 2xAIM-7E2. Stock Br drops to 12,3. With that armament it’s not really superior to other 12,3s and even 11,3s do have a counter (SARH or all Aspect missiles). As long as you play with AIM-9P and AIM-7E2 you’re good at 12,3.
Now, if you go AIM-54A you go 12,7.
You take F90 and add a mod(it’s not in game) Fatter (all aspect) missile and R27R you go 13.0.
Practically you picture the vehicle in different configurations/eras and you play accordingly.
I’m setting an example btw, but the thoughts behind it is that weapons are like 50% of the power of that vehicle. And i don’t mind the vehicle being on the bad side of the powerscale, as long as you have an option to play where it is balanced. In my example, btw, i’m not saying F-14 IRIAF is OP as is, i’m saying you can add Fatter (AIM-9M equivalent…on paper at least) and pull the questionable armament F90 to 13.0 with it , but there it will have tools to work…maybe better than a F-15A in occasions.
Similar you can give a mod for AIM-120 to F-15A and take it 13,3 or 13,7. But that it will be picked by the player.
And as we talk Phantoms here, they would benefit much from a change like that.