Starting with the M44. We could have had the Mk F3 155 mm
Next the CV 9035NL. We could have had the AMX-10RCR T40M.
The Leopard 2A4NL. There shouldn’t be one France has no vehicles at 10.7 in ground RB. You want one anyway? Fine you can have the Mulet Système Complet.
I think BeNeLuX should have been its own tree. there’s more than enough vehicles to make a fully fledged tree so putting it in France has done nothing but stunt those countries representation
Fair. I’m all for more tech trees as long as there isn’t to much copy past or they can find a way to pair nations by vehicle type so we aren’t fight leopards in leopards.
I mean the Dutch would be the main lump of that tree and they have almost soully bought British or American for the last century, there would be cool centurion variants at least.
I mean that’s all that Top tier is now already so it really wouldn’t change anything
Yes, the addition of BeNeLux has been a hot mess, only serving as an excuse to add more top tier stuff to France. There’s a lot of potential in both Belgium and the Netherlands, specially in low tier (T.13, T.15, Pantserwagen M38, etc.) but the developers add certain vehicles depending on whether the nation needs it as a reinforcement or not (based on their own criteria), instead of for the sake of variation.
Either way, there’s a very good suggestion regarding a possible rework of the subtrees, and I personally like it quite a lot. You may aswell be interested:
Thats a really good idea! My biggest complaint about BeNeLux was I was 90,000 rp away from the Leclerc with the addition of the Leopards I was put behind a 400,000 rp grind wall because of a tank I never wanted to play.
Adding the BeNeLux to France with mainly German equipment, while there even is a Dutch-German Brigade IRL and the community continuously speaks up against copy-pasting vehicles into non-native trees was also a questionable move…
My problem with benelux is the part that destroy France identity and that it was a way for gaijin to fix some problems that France has in a quick way, i don’t mind most of the low tier stuff nor 90% of the air , i’m not that mad and just don’t care about those f16 even if as i understand there are f16 that could use magic 2 and would fit better, otherwise for the leopard and the cv9035 it’s a pure insult.
France has plenty of possibility for ifv, we recently got the tt vbci but it is quite late and the cv is not unique and purely a copypaste that makes no sense in french tt, it should be with all the others cv in sweden.
For the leo it was not needed, makes no sense and show how much gaijin care about the french tech tree, they wanted to find vehicles for 10.7 which was a big hole for France and fix the problem with the leclerc that gaijin themself created.
mbt of france should only be the leclerc, and the leclerc prototype can totally fill the holes before normal leclerc, 4sec reload with no armor at all and medium round is fair enough.
No matter what, france should have NEVER gotten the dutch vehicles. They are infinitely closer to germany than france in every way, the Leo 2s France now has afaik were even under German command…
So either move the dutch vehicles to germany or if you don’t want the duplicate leos there then turn them into skins…
None of these should occur INSTEAD of something else.
Benelux wasn’t added instead of anything else, and these shouldn’t be either.
Both of your options are bad, and benelux is a great addition to France. Especially since at least half of it is unique vehicles, and over half unique TO French lineups. Two of the Leopard 2s are unique models to the game.
Similar to how Merkava is a unique CQC option for USA lineups.
If that’s the definition of copy-paste, then copy-paste doesn’t exist in War Thunder.
Most of the development time is in research. Commissioning the model and animations are the other portion.
3D model being a fairly cheap commission. It takes research to confirm that they CAN copy an existing model [Leopard 2A4]. And if that research warrants a new 3D model [2A5NL], then they commission a new model.
@Zahltag
So is your take that Switzerland and Denmark should go to France instead of Benelux? Cause France needs access to F35s somehow.
Switzerland arguably could be moved, not denmark. Your brain seems to have a hard time comprehending that countries usually aren’t arbitrarily assigned to ingame nations
That is only the case for the last 10 or so years.
They were not. The Leopard 2A6 we see in game is the Leo 2A6M2, which was a fully Dutch-owned Leopard 2 variant, with Dutch electronic equipment, sights and external modifications for crew storage.
A Dutch Leopard 2A6M2 NL with smoke grenade launchers in the front and on the sides of the turret
And don’t forget, the single country that the Dutch are closest to are the Belgians, with multiple cooperations, some even starting in 1948, right after WWII.
Currently the Netherlands doesn’t have MBT’s in its inventory, but they are allowed to use the semi-leased tanks from the german 414 batallion with they have a binational cooperation command structure under the NATO structure. These are the Leopard 2A6M3’s (which don’t even get Dutch markings). All other heavy armoured equipment is Dutch owned and under Dutch command.
Other parts of the Dutch armed forces are in cooperation pacts with another nation, namely Belgium:
Nuclear/Biochemical/Disaster response are a Belgium/Netherlands cooperation. (since 1951)
120 mm mortar training for the artillery of both nations has been a cooperation for over 30 years now.
The Dutch Navy is under the BeNeSam (=Belgium & Netherlands Samenwerking/cooperation) admirality. (same uniforms, same ships for some parts and same training as well for some ships). (since 1948)
The Dutch Air Force shares the BeNeLux airspace, as both Belgium and The Netherlands share the Defence. (since early 2000s)
The Dutch special forces and the Belgian ones are now also one task force. (since 2023)
Dutch Army equipment was NOT under command of the German Bundeswehr Please don’t spread this misinformation.
There is only one non copy paste vehicle in the entire sub tree the Fokker G.1A.
If the Leclerc need help at top tier why would you add the Leopard at the same BR wouldn’t it be just as bad? There both 12.0 shouldn’t they be equal? You can’t on the one hand say France isn’t good enough at top tier and needs help and on the other keep the vehicle that isn’t performing at the same BR. Its pretty easy if a vehicle isn’t performing you buff it or move it down in BR, you don’t surround it with “better” vehicles.
Then your post is portraying you as not playing the game.
Vehicles that have new 3D models AFTER Gaijin spent the time and money researching the vehicles AND determining new models were necessary:
Leopard 2A6NL, Leopard 2A5NL, Gladiator Mk1, F-16AM, F-16A, Mirage 5BA, Meteor F Mk8, CV9035NL are all unique vehicles.
“Play style is the same.”
So Leclerc is copy-paste of Abrams if you ever claim that play style is ever a factor in what makes something copy-paste.
