Fighter jets can be main and meta in every air mode. from Air Acade to Air sim.
While bomber/striker jet players are forced to learn or move to Air Sim.
Thanks to Air RB mode, which allows nothing but PvP hellhole dictates how to win.
Yes, playing those in Air Sim is the best option. but…
Gaijin separated BR of Air RB and Ground RB in the name of ‘make attackers fairer in air’, which ended up as ‘just adopted it because they wanted further nerf on attackers in GRB instead’
If Gaijin separated BR of Air RB and Ground RB, then Gaijin should’ve dictated BR of every vehicle in Air RB with ‘how they are capable of making victory’. But they don’t.
Seems like our little friend´s feelings got hurt because i called him out on his nonsense and got no arguments left, so flagging a post its always an option amirite?
If you want we can test it out in a 1v1, you take the A-7K and lets see how you do 😉
Just saw that, only took them a couple years. Love how all the chinese players are complaining their jh7 is getting moved to 11.7 now as if it doesn’t get irccm missiles lol. Although im not sure if its getting moved up in ground as well, which is where i would agree with them as it should stick at 11.3 for that specific case.
… is this guy actually arguing that a mig 21 bis would have any right losing to an a-7 lmao? That may be the most delusional take ive ever heard. No need for 9ls, the guns all i would need for an a-7.
And going vertical or almost vertical is a typical thing to do in delta wings, lets you get behind people because you know, big speed bleed = big turn?
No?
Lein thought I was saying A-7 would win in 1v1s, which it won’t.
However, in air RB, things are more complicated. A-7 gets a strong start around 8000 meters of altitude, [while being able to detect all radars at the BR] and since Mig-21s don’t tend to go that high or higher, the A-7 is in an energy advantage over many enemies.
Now, J-7Ds will climb and when they do, A-7 probably won’t survive a long engagement and is then reliant on team mates.
There’s a lot of nuance to think about.
And vertical maneuvers are important, but also important not to screw up. Cause doing a vertical to get away from an A-7 only to get memed on by an F-4E, or F-8E in the area isn’t the best outcome.
I understand your point though I do wish attackers and bombers had some say in determining the outcome of a match in air rb but alas the game mode just isn’t built that way
Have you actually played the A7K? It’s dogfight performance is absolutely disastrous, it accelerates incredibly slowly, it turns badly, it can’t fight in the vertical at all, even aircraft like the Su-25 feel lighter. All the performance you are talking about with the other A-7s it simply does not have, it’s too heavy. It has almost 1000kg of extra dead weight and that’s before you factor in ordinance.
All with air to air weapons attached:
A-7K accelerates with a SEP of 10,000 - 14000 feet per minute in SEP.
A-7K turns at 16.4 - 18.3 degrees per second sustained.
The A-6E TRAM [10.7] in contrast accelerates with a SEP 8800 - 9800.
A-6E TRAM also sustains around 14.5 degrees per second at initial fuel load.
Significantly worse airframe performance for 1 more missile, and losing the Vulcan for the navy 20mm.
Harrier FRS for example, with 2 AIM-9Ls, no Vulcan either:
15,000 - 20,000 SEP during acceleration.
12.0 degrees per second sustained. [11.5 for AV-8S.]
Harrier FRS is the F-104 of subsonic aircraft.
Japan has the Alpha Jet TH using the worse AIM-9P-4s [R-60M equivalent], no Vulcan.
During acceleration there is a SEP of 11,000 - 14,000.
And a sustained turn rate of 18.1 on initial fuel.
Hawk 200 at 10.7:
During acceleration there is a SEP of 6000 - 8000. The worst of the non-A-10s.
Initial sustained of 14 degrees per second.
Super Etendard [much like A-7E] without all aspect missiles:
12,000 - 20,000 SEP during initial acceleration.
13.4 initial sustained turn rate.
So yeah, among the subsonic aircraft, A-7K is BR’d among them rather than being different in any regard.
From 10.3 to 11.3, subsonic aircraft seem to be balanced off of each other rather well.
Which leaves 13.0 compression causing issues for 11.3 which F-5TH/F-5AG cause issues for subsonic aircraft.
Great post, fantastic input from all. this brings into play some finite details that normally are rarely reflected upon. I guess the main rzn for the original post was to let Gaijin know there are many of us who love these niche’ airframes. Just felt odd in the BR i was in (ARB). Game master Schindibee said it best “chose the aircraft for the game mode” vs. “chose the game mode for the aircraft”. I did not want to bring yet another rant post but rather open the door to real BR changes to the unique/old/forgotten airframes that some of us love to play. Brings a new level of playability and joy. (insert any event unique vehicle). So many valid points. Thank you.
Hehe, in this context it’s “Sim-player Schindibee”, not “Game Master Schindibee”, and my remark is in no way an official statement, merely the way I personally look at these things - and admittedly, try to get others to look at it the same way too…
Exactly my point: in some game modes, some aircraft may struggle, in other modes they do better. In the end, play what’s fun for you! I myself really detest the Air RB meta (don’t even mention any arcade mode…) and gameplay, so play Sim almost exclusively, but I’m insofar fortunate that as I also love to play attackers, I can both “chose the aircraft for the game mode” AND “chose the game mode for the aircraft”…
All of this is theoretical paper statistics. I ask again, have you flown it in combat? I have flown the A7K, Alpha Jet and Hawk 209 extensively and the A7K has by far the worst handling characteristics of any of them. You can use statcard metrics all you want but it’s not proving anything.
@Woozle
All of this is practical real world testing statistics.*
Fixed it for you.
I’ve flown many A-7s over the years.
I flew the American A-7D and E when I didn’t know about their flight performance.
I flew the Thai A-7E more recently when I did discover the flight performance.
And I recently purchased A-7K, got the chaff in arcade despite my teams being awful, then have done extremely well since in realistic battles.
Hawk has the worst handling out of the vehicles you mentioned. A-7 is faster, better at dogfighting, retains more energy, climbs better.
You even admitted at the end you’re using statcards.
Don’t use statcards, dude.
There’s a reason I’ve never used statcards.
Do you ever fly it loaded or do you just fly it as a ghetto fighter? Because loaded it’s worse than all these other aircraft. I don’t use statcard metrics I assumed that’s what you were doing because your statements aren’t matching reality.
@Woozle
Putting more than 9 500 pound bombs increases its mass more than adding 9 500 pound bombs onto a Hawk 200…
There’s no reason to bring ordnance into air RB. I don’t even bring ordnance on F-111A; many times even running it with only its gun.
500 - 2000 rounds of ammo, and air to air missiles is all that’s necessary for air RB. Whether ground striking or fighting players.
You are more than welcome to bring loadouts that make your aircraft bad, but you can’t blame the aircraft and claim it’s the aircraft’s fault for the situations you put it into.
If you think Statshark, WTRTI, and reality don’t match reality, you’re more than welcome to complain.
I’m an attacker pilot, I like to do attacker pilot things and the A7K is simply much less able to defend itself effectively compared to the likes of the Su-25 or Hawk while loaded with rockets. You can say I’m making the airframe bad but why would I ever want to fly it as a mediocre fighter?