Ish.
I would personally place all-aspect Red Tops to be roughly on-par with Aim-7C. Maybe a tad harder to defeat, but not far off. But given the F3H is 200kph faster and has guns and is the same BR. I dont think all-aspect red tops would be an issue at 9.0.
You clearly don’t realize just how bad the AIM-7C is, especially when paired with the Demon’s radar.
Also they’re 9.3.
Why is it that if you want to fly gunfighter jets without having to deal with missiles existing (yes, you need to be snuck upon and whatnot but third partying is a thing and you’ll do very different energy management fighting 1vs1 against another gunfighter with the only risk being other gunfighters… or having to fly with the worry that a missile might third party you in a position guns couldn’t)…
Your options are:
Where’s the big korean war gunfighter duels. Where’s the mig alley?
I’ve had that thing somehow finding me through radar clutter at tree top level and catching up to me when playing 9.0 aircraft. Last time I found one was playing the IAR-93, the only reason I knew it was there was because of RWR, (not exactly common at 8.3 and below) so I was entirely at its mercy. I couldn’t outrun him even after jettisoning bombs, so my only hope was losing him in the terrain. And don’t say “just fight it using guns”, because no pilot with two working braincells will engage you in a dogfight. It has the speed to turn around and flee to safety with absolute immunity.
Definitely undertiered. It should be 9.0 at the very least, possibly 9.3.
Sure, when Red Tops get buffed up to IRL levels.
I cant speak much on sim but, assuming it is similar to air rb, the sea vixen could move up. It is a hard jet to balance. Decompression is needed.
And about the red top talk, they are about on par with the aim9e. They have way worse energy retention but they get better locking aspects and much better tnt.
This threads reminds me of the chsnge to 9.0 in air rb. The sea vixen struggles greatly vs anything with flares and most stuff 9.3 and above. However, it should of not been fighting 7.7s so it was understandable to move it up.
TLDR: decompression is needed, sea vixen probably should go up one br step, and red tops are not as good as some of you are describing them.
And lower them by a full BR? Sure, then we’ll have F9F-8s running around at 7.3, F-104Js at 9.0, etc.
No missiles (unlike the sea Vixen), no radar (unlike the Sea Vixen), slower (than the Sea Vixen) and lower TWR (than the Sea Vixen)
Again, used properly they should never ever see you coming. You’re far faster and can afford to take the safest approach possible.
The difference is HOW OFTEN and HOW EASY that is to achieve. A Sea Vixen can run around being immune to everything because it is simply uncatchable and nothing has the speed and/or missiles to catch up to it unless the Sea Vixen makes a big mistake.
Tornado vs MiG-29 is not like that, not even close.
*Supersonic aircraft fighting other supersonic aircraft which is a crucial detail you keep ignoring
A whole 17kph faster. Deserves the 9.3 for its handling though.
Big skill issue. Huge even.
Refer back to the MER chart where the Sea Vixen has way better TWR than the already capable F-86K
In the same way that an F-104A at 9.0 would be weak at dogfights and can only run away and never engage anyone, yes.
That’s not what I said but cool strawman. You engage anyone not paying attention, like this guy I shot down in the Kikka - also an extremely fast plane that relies on engaging distracted enemies due to its nonexistent gunsight and stiff handling.
Why would it go to the same BR as a Meteor?
Sea level is where 99% of Sim air combat happens.
According to your logic, it should be 7.7 because it is slower than a Sea Vixen, has worse missiles, and no radar. But given that it is faster and way more agile than the F9F-8, 8.7 would be fine.
Again, in the same way that an F-104A at 9.0 is unable to dogfight anyone and has to run away if a target is paying attention.
Actually that’s a good analogy - the Sea Vixen at 8.3 is exactly like a 9.0 F-104A. It will NEVER get shot down unless they make a big mistake. Nobody can catch up to it, it can’t dogfight anyone, and is unable to shoot down targets that start dodging. But it also gets INFINITE chances at killing people because it can come and go as it wants free of consequences.
Navy Phantoms never introduced the internal gun.
F-104A is 9.7, not 8.3.
Calling the Demon supersonic is hilarious. Also AIM-7Cs aren’t better.
Demon mach 0.95 in level flight is pretty close.
Will definitely go supersonic in a slight dive.
AIM 7C isnt great you can also take more 9Bs
A Sabre will go supersonic in a slight dive as well, doesn’t make it supersonic. Demon will only do that in level flight at rather high altitude.
9Bs which are also worse than Red Tops.
Not really the point, the gun was found to be needed in USAF service, and the gun was re-introduced in the F-4E. An internal gun is better than gun-pods or no gun at all. As the Vixen doesn’t have guns, it has to rely solely on its missiles, which can be easily dodged if the enemy is paying attention.
Again not the point, if an F-104 off all things can dodge a missile without CM at 1.5km while being launched from a faster platform, then the missiles aren’t the best considering most vehicles at 8.3 in my experience can pull a fair bit harder than an F-104.
I reckon the Redtops are about equal to the AIM-9E as someone else mentioned earlier. Also considering as I was playing the Lightning F.6’s redtops I will have a different experience to those on the Vixen due to the far lower BR (8.3 vs 9.7).
I don’t think the ability to force a stalemate is a good reason to set the balance so that one plane can do anything it wants with impunity. Yeah, the Sea Vixen’s targets can turn, but in turn you also burn the target’s energy state. The Sea Vixen can then work towards the kill by making the target unable to dodge missiles, like baiting a shot into slow speeds.
How about you and your fellow RB mains stop posting complete offtopic rubbish here? How does the Sea Vixen performance or BR in other modes have anything to do with Sea Vixen play in SB? Or any other planes performance in the other game modes?
At 9.0 there would be a 100% guaranteed way to dodge R60 without even trying: Just join the 8.0 - 9.0 lobbies and never even see a plane which can carry one.
The Sea Vixen and Ariete are P2W vehicles which both really need a higher BR. At the moment they are pretty much ruining the matches on the BR they are sitting on.
The F-4E is an Air Force plane, which is NOT what was claimed:
Which is the same with every early missile, but the problem is SEEING the missile in the first place. Sim isn’t RB where you can look in any direction, many planes CAN’T look behind them in the first place, let alone notice a missile being launched.
Sea Vixen isn’t faster, and a 9B can be easily dodged by an F-104 from 1km away.
A Sabre can just outpull a 9B, sure. But a Red Top has higher G pull and is much harder to dodge like that; the 104 is fast enough to run even an AIM-9J out of energy with an S maneuver.
At 9.7 the Lightning is extremely competitive, T-2s are free kills to it.
This is the crux of the issue - the Sea Vixen always gets to decide if and when someone gets close to it due to sitting at the comically low BR of 8.3, while holding EVERY SINGLE ADVANTAGE except guns. But it gets 4x missiles anyway.
Also, I’m still waiting for @Morvran to name a single aircraft that is comparable in capabilities to the Sea Vixen anywhere near 8.3.
If you are being baited into being energy trapped then that is a skill issue not a balancing issue. The sea vixen should not be at a BR where it’s impossible to do anything, that is not balanced that is massively over BRed
If you can’t get kills while having every possible advantage, that’s a skill issue. Same for if you can’t get kills against planes that are actually equal in performance. No plane, not just the Sea Vixen, should be at a BR so low that it is impossible to shoot down when played correctly.
Nor should the sea vixen or any aircraft be at a BR where it literally cannot do anything because everything else is superior (either in speed, loadout or CMs)
Sea Vixen should not, under any circumstances be seeing 9.3s with flares and yet people are proposing a BR where it will face all-aspect slingers with CMs. That is just insane
At 9.0, it will never under any circumstances face all-aspect missiles. And you can just not play uptier matches. It’s sim. You get to pick the BR bracket.
I would still argue the Red Top is better because of the much larger gimbal limit. Being able to lead the shot by that much means its practical range against a target that isn’t just straight ahead is a lot better, since it doesn’t have to pull nearly as much to score a hit.
Cap guy wants it at 9.3
In sim, 8.7 max, G.91s slap it all day long.
