- Yes
- No
1. Background of the proposal
A. The potential of a standalone tree
The United Korean Ground Forces Tech Tree suggestion has been passed to the devs.
In the old forum, original suggestion has gained significant consent from the community.
From ‘Answering Your Questions’ in the WT Official channel, BVV_d(War Thunder producer) mentioned in the affirmative a possibility of Korea being a new nation.
This suggestion, along with the United Korean Ground Forces proposal above, aims to form a independent(stand-alone) faction Korea, like Israel.
To solidify this, I felt the need of providing an helicopter tech tree suggestion.
Suggestions for the United Korea:
- United Korea Tech Tree in old forum by spamanator500
- United Korea Ground Forces Tech Tree by ChieftainWarrior
- United Korean Aviation Tech Tree in old forum by me
- United Korean Aviation Tech Tree by me
- United Korean Helicopter Tech Tree in old forum by me
- United Korean Helicopter Tech Tree by me
B. Why should it be implemented as a standalone tree?
There are 3 ways to implement South and North Korean vehicles in this game.
- a. As GE/Pack/BP/Event Premiums: Too much volume of vehicles to implement in this option. The only country with technical relevance to South Korea is the United States, but the United States already has more than enough event vehicles, which makes South Korean event vehicles rather redundant.
- b. As a sub-tree: Also too much volume of vehicles. Even though it’s implemented as a certain country’s subtree, the top rank tech tree would be overwhelmed by South Korean vehicles which might surpass the implemented nation’s vehicle timeline. North Korea causes a dilemma between the USSR or China, since the historical development of vehicles is not fully dependent on a single nation.
- c. As a standalone tree: The approach we are proposing in this thread.
Some might ask “Why not implement SK as a subtree for Japan? Japan is suffering from a lack of top tier vehicles!” However, this would cause problems from a historical point of view. For example, one demanding the addition of Egypt/Jordan/Saudi/Syria as a subtree to fill Israel’s lack of equipment could be problematic.
In addition, Japan does not share particular military/technical ties with South Korea. (Unlike South Africa in the UK and Finland in Sweden) So it is not a good idea to claim that Japan can have South Korean equipment without any basis. They just lie side by side on the map. Stona(the Community Manager) is also well aware that Japan and Korea have no technical relevance with each other.
Besides, as explained earlier, top tier vehicle trees will be heavily affected by Korean vehicles in this case. People who claim false technological/political ties between Japan and Korea, do NOT address on this gameplay-related issue nor the fact that they have no technical nor alliance in real life at all. Some people invent lies about ties between Japan and Korea simply to get more vehicles in their main, but neither Koreans nor Japanese want that. As someone who has been interested in Japanese technology and has been grinding Japanese TTs, it would be distasteful to see only Korean-made vehicles technically disconnected from Japan in an update that was expecting new Japanese-made vehicles to come out. I’ve already seen many responses from the Japanese community that they don’t want Korean sub-trees for this reason.
Then, what upsides propel Korea as a standalone tree? To answer this question, I suggest the potential list of more possible vehicles to be added in the higher ranks. Unlike other nation candidates as a standalone tree, Korea is actively developing new indigenous vehicles for both ground and air at this very moment, which means that the tree yields more possible outcomes.
2. Tech tree
A. Overview & Structure
B. KPA Helicopters Branch
Korean People’s Army helicopters are consist of Mi-2 and 500E. However, there are only two missiles-Susŏngp’o(9M14) and Bulsae-2(9M111-2) - have been proven mounted on a North Korean helicopter.
However, the 9K11’s performance is not very good, so North Korean helicopters armed with this missile should be compared to the Swedish Hkp 3C with Rb 53.
The Hyŏksin-2 is a North Korean-made Mi-2 helicopter, but equipped with North Korean-made weapons.
This was also mentioned a few times in Jajusibo, an Internet news outlet written by a pro-North Korea journalist Han Ho-seok. He had visited the 조선인민군 무장장비관Korean People’s Army Arms and Equipment Museum in Pyongyang.
It’s remarkable that he makes a distinction between “light armed helicopters” and “Hyŏksin-2 heavy armed attack helicopters”. We don’t know what the criteria for their light armed/heavy armed helicopters, but it’s clear that these are indeed attack helicopters.
His claims are full of nonsense regarding the performance of North Korean weapons or the capabilities of the North Korean military. (For example, he argues that North Korea’s MiG-21 would have an edge against the F-22.) However, there is no reason for him to make up the ‘names’ of the weapons that he ‘wrote down’ during his visit to Phyŏngyang.
In 2016, a new missile was confirmed to be fired from this helicopter. If this missile is more advanced than previous missiles, it can be a higher BR variant. Unfortunately, we unaware about the details of said missile. Therefore, I’ve set it to 7.7, assuming for now that this is using the old missiles.
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The North Korean MD 500 was brought in from 1983 to 1985 through a West German company called Delta Avia Fluggerate GmbH, a ghost company created by Americans and Germans bought into North Korea to smuggle MD 500 helicopters into North Korea.
It even invaded Korean airspace in the early 1980s, when it was imported, but was confirmed to be true by top secret information at the time. If there is a painting disguised as a South Korean MD 500, it will further accentuate the background of a North Korean helicopter intended to confuse South Korea.
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C. Light/Medium Helicopter Branch
Korean Light Helicopter
The KLH is a program to acquire a reconnaissance light helicopter to supplement the South Korean Army’s AH-1S Cobra attack helicopters, with 12 Bo 105CBS-5s in licensed production and inducted into the South Korean Army Air Force. It is not capable of using anti-tank missiles such as TOW and HOT, but only miniguns and rockets, and its engine is the 420-hp 250-C20B instead of the 550-hp 250-C28C.
The KLH project was first started in 1988, when the South Korean Army realized the need for a reconnaissance light helicopter that could support the AH-1S Cobra attack helicopter, which was introduced at that time. Although there was already a 500MD as a light helicopter, the 500MD was efficient as a light attack helicopter/light utility helicopter, but it was limited as a reconnaissance helicopter because it had little to no sensors nor targeting equipment, which are essential equipment for reconnaissance helicopters due to its weight limitations. In addition, KLH was expected to replace the 500MD, which was lost due to various reasons after its introduction, and in the long term, it was also expected to take on the role of a light attack/light utility helicopter that the 500MD had previously played.
Korean Air & McDonald Douglas’ 520MK, an improved version of the 500MD, Daewoo Heavy Industries & Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm’s Bo 105, SammiAgusta Air & Agusta’s A109, and Bell’s OH-58 were proposed as candidates, with the Bo 105 winning out.
However, in 1992, a field performance verification conducted by the Institute of Defense Science and Technology concluded that the candidates under consideration did not meet the military’s performance requirements (especially targeting equipment, range and crosswind capabilities, and performance improvements).
The number of aircraft required was steadily reduced until 1993, when the program was reconsidered. However, the Joint Chiefs of Staff decided to proceed with the program, modifying the ROC and shortening the range to meet the military’s performance requirements. The third performance evaluation in April 1996 showed some improvements, such as the performance of the engine and rotor blades, but ultimately the ROC was not met, and the conditional combat use was downgraded. In May 1996, the 96-7th weapons systems conference revised the ROC of the small reconnaissance helicopter to unarmed. This meant that the ROK’s Bo 105 could not operate any anti-tank missiles.
Another problem with KLH’s project that arose as a result of the reduced requirement was that it was not possible to maintain a separate engine maintenance depot for 12 helicopters, so the engine was not the 550-horsepower 250-C28C, the basic engine of the Bo 105CBS-5, but the same engine, the 420-horsepower 250-C20B, to ensure common maintenance with the 500MD. Because of this, the BO-105, despite being equipped with an engine with less power than the original model, was complained by the military for its low maneuverability, even though it was a reconnaissance helicopter that had to carry more equipment than the original model.
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SA.319B Allouette III
The Alouette III was introduced to the ROKN Aviation Force in 1977 and operated on the Chungbuk-class destroyer (Gearing-class destroyer) until the introduction of the Super Lynx Mk.99 in 1991.
The South Korean Alouette III holds a special place in the history of the Republic of Korea Armed Forces, as it was the first aircraft to achieve an operational kill mark of any aircraft in the ROK Navy and Air Force since the Korean War ended in a ‘armistice’.
On August 13, 1983, the radar of the Chungbuk-class destroyer ROKN Gangwon detected a suspicious vessel, and after tracking it, it turned out to be a North Korean spy ship disguised as a Japanese fishing boat. The vessel was suspected to be the mothership of four North Korean commandos who had infiltrated the South Korean coast on August 5 and were killed by South Korean marines. The ROKN Gangwon signaled to stop but was not heeded, and when warning shots were fired, the ‘fishing boat’ replied with fire.
ROKN Gangwon gave chase at 36 knots, but the North Korean vessel escaped at 40 knots. ROKN Gangwon’s Alouette III scrambled and fired an AS.12 missile with anti-ship warhead (OP3C). The first attempt hit but misfired, and the second missed. After returning to the deck to refit, Alouette III fired a third missile, and hit succesfully. The fishing boat sank at around 11:40.
The incident gave the Alouette III the only post-Korean War combat kill mark of any aircraft operated by the ROK Armed Forces. The aircraft has been on display at the War Memorial of Korea since the end of its service.
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500MD Defender
Recently this has been implemented in this game with Israeli vehicle, but it can be said that it is Korean origin. The Korean government invested the development cost when developing the improved 500MD -the 500MD Defender- giving the 500MD the ability to operate TOW. After Hughes Helicopters sold it to Israel, the South Korean government acquired a royalty of 20,000 dollars per unit from Hughes Helicopters.
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520MK Black Tiger
The 520MK was developed by Korean Air in jointly developed with MDHS(McDonnell Douglas Helicopter Systems) company in the U.S. based on 500MD, and has improved main rotor blades, more high-power engines and advanced navigation/communication equipment, radar warning systems, and hellfire missile operation capabilities. One prototype was built in Oct 1989.
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Designed for replacing the Republic of Korea Army(RoKA)’s aged attack helicopter (500MD, AH-1S), the LAH(Light Armed Helicopter) Project is the one that aims to develop a cutting-edge armed helicopter suitable for the modern battlefield. Currently in mass production by Korea Aerospace Industries.
The prototype was delivered on December 18, 2018, and the first flight took place on July 4, 2019. After that, KAI signed a contract with DAPA on December 22, 2022 for the mass production of the LAH, with the first delivery scheduled for December 2024. Finally, on December 26, 2024, the first production aircraft was delivered to the Republic of Korea Army Air Force.
It can carry four TAipers, an FnF ATGM with a range of 8 kilometers.
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https://youtu.be/AQi9hcPCtXE?si=WaJr8iJ7vbAYVqPj
https://youtu.be/oL74fNq6HXM?si=t5h02YDZsjbM3AOR
https://youtu.be/Kny9BPoPurU?si=Lw1cTD0GGzhu5kAA
MAH-1
The MAH-1 is an attack helicopter based on the MUH-1, an amphibious variant of the KUH-1 Surion for the ROKMC. The ATGM uses the same TAipers missiles as the LAH, but can carry more of them than the LAH. It will be equipped with the Mistral ATAM system as its air-to-air missile. The MAH first flew in 2024, Dec 17th.
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D. Heavy Helicopter Branch
AH-1J (International)
The AH-1J International is an improved version manufactured based on the AH-1J Sea Cobra for export to Iran, and the biggest difference is its TOW operation capability. It was first exported to Iran, and has since been exported to several countries, including South Korea. Delivered in 1978.
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AH-1S (Early)
The ROK military introduced the AH-1S STEP III in four separate installments since 1988. Although the specifications are the same as the US military’s AH-1F, it was introduced as AH-1S because it was a project that started before the US military renamed AH-1S STEP III to AH-1F. (like JGSDF AH-1S)
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AH-1S (Late)
Later in 2014, in partnership with Orbital ATK, AAR-47 MAW/LWS and AN/ALE-47 chaff/flare dispenser were installed.
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AH-64E Apache Guardian
On May 25 2016, the first AH-64E arrived at Busan Port, and on Jan 9 2017, it was confirmed that the Army took over all of the AH-64E, and on Jan 27 2017, two battalions(36 AH-64E) were operationally deployed under the Army Aviation Operations Command. The Korean AH-64E uses the R1 version of the Hellfire and the H version of the Stinger.
E. Premiums
UH-1H
It was operated by the ROK Navy and was equipped with 14 * 2.75-inch rockets (7 on each side) and illuminating flare launchers.
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Mi-8, Mi-17
There are few technical differences. A distinguishing feature in appearance is the tail rotor, with the Mi-8 on the left and the Mi-17 on the right.
It would be nice to sell the Mi-17 as a Golden Eagle and get the Mi-8 (white color painting) as an event.
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AH-1S (C-NITE)
Until 1994, there was no night combat capability other than the night vision goggles that the pilots were directly equipped with, so there were great difficulties in night operations. However, in 1994, C-NITE thermal imaging sighting equipment was introduced as item urgently required project and installed on some aircraft (24 units) to secure night combat capability.
Ka-52K (for a Squadron vehicle)
The Ka-52’s naval variant, the Ka-52K, is well known, but there is one more variant with the same name. This is the Ka-52K, which means “Корея (Korea)”, which is testified in detail in the memoirs of Alexander Yuryevich Vagin, the chief designer of the Kamov.
Compared to the Ka-52 already implemented in the game, there isn’t an L-370-5 “Vitebsk” DIRCM system. This system is known as a component of the “President-S” integrated protection system.
There is a prototype that was actually modified for the South Korean military’s requirements, but the integration of the Spike-ER missile was not one of them, as the program virtually dissipated before it was completed. Therefore, it is up to the developers to decide whether or not to equip this vehicle with the Spike-ER missile, and if they consider it an ‘unfinished prototype’, then it will be. If not, then it will use Russian-made armament.
The Ka-52K, like the T-80U and BMP-3, could become an iconic squadron vehicle that represents the dynamic relationship between South Korea and Russia during the late Cold War and post-Cold War era.
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The AW159 is a shipboard helicopter for the ROKN. It differs from the UK’s AW159 in a few ways, the most notable being that it has the Spike NLOS missile, which allows it to be used not just for anti-submarine warfare missions, but also to destroy North Korean fast attack crafts and hovercrafts, and an AESA radar that can detect up to 360 kilometers.
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3. References
https://www.jcs.mil.kr/mbshome/mbs/jcs2/ebook/jcsbook/index.html
https://www.koreaaero.com/KO/data_file/BROCHURE/2021_KAI_brochure_ENG_210528.pdf
https://www.koreaaero.com/EN/Business/LAH.aspx
https://youtu.be/G0zFW3G1_Zo (DAPA official channel)
http://www.koreascience.kr/article/JAKO199141548244488.pdf
http://www.koreascience.or.kr/article/JAKO199841548283139.pdf
https://www.koreascience.or.kr/article/JAKO200041847897821.pdf
https://www.koreascience.or.kr/article/JAKO200141548512331.pdf
https://www.koreaaero.com/KO/upload_images/prCenter/7/7회_김기정.pdf
https://kr.img.news.koreanair.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/1권-통사.pdf
https://kookbang.dema.mil.kr/newsWeb/20140522/4/BBSMSTR_000000010023/view.do
https://kookbang.dema.mil.kr/newsWeb/20181031/9/BBSMSTR_000000100010/view.do
https://www.mbn.co.kr/news/politics/1286100
https://www.hankyung.com/news/article/1996101701111
https://www.seoul.co.kr/news/newsView.php?id=19961019010002
https://www.sedaily.com/NewsView/1HQ5T7GD5T
https://mobile.newsis.com/view.html?ar_id=NISX20121213_0011685757
http://www.economytalk.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=30289
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/13_aug2017-birth-of-the-cobra-180963930/
https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/republic-korea-agm-114r1-hellfire-missiles
http://www.defensetoday.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=2491
https://m.news.nate.com/view/20220118n15725
https://kookbang.dema.mil.kr/newsWeb/20210423/1/BBSMSTR_000000100164/view.do
https://hisntd.com/eng/business/data/Gun-Artillery_Sytems.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA1Wqo9B3QU (SNT Motiv Official Channel)
Peoples, K. (1988). Bell Ah-1 Cobra variants (Vol. 4, Ser. Aerofax Datagraph). Aerofax.
Howard M. Hensel. (2020). Air Power in the Indian Ocean and the Western Pacific. Routledge
United States Federal Aviation Administration. (2018). Order 7360.1D Aircraft Type Designators
European Union Aviation Safety Agency. (2020. 8). Assignment Of Aircraft Types To RECAT-EU Wake Turbulence Categories.
https://m.koreaaero.com/EN/Business/MAH.aspx
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mil_k_im/
https://kookbang.dema.mil.kr/newsWeb/20210806/2/ATCE_CTGR_0020050014/view.do
https://kookbang.dema.mil.kr/newsWeb/20160628/5/ATCE_CTGR_0010010000/view.do
https://youtu.be/VU-kbJa9A84?si=kYbAv3X7dmX1-WqE (KAI official channel)
https://www.mbda-systems.com/products/force-protection/mistral-family/mistral-atam
https://www.mbda-systems.com/mbdas-mistral-missile-arm-korean-helicopters
