Unfai̇r si̇mulati̇on battle

Game Discussion Simulator Battle
66

If both of those players are amateurs…then what does that make you?

You keep trying to insist that we are all amateurs without any evidence. If it’s a simple issue of skill then someone who is implying that they are better than one of the top 25 active duelists in the game should be able to step up and put the issue to rest through a demonstration.

The results I have shown are easily repeatable. The Bf.109 G-6 and late model Bf.109s are more maneuverable than the P-51 D-30.

I haven’t mentioned the Corsair series because the match up largely plays out the same way until you get to the 5.7 F4U-4B.

Pointless insult #2.

Another basic factual error on your part.

The Yak-3P is 5.7 BR and the Bf.109 G-2 is 4.3 BR. They do not fight each other at all.

The P-51 D-30 and the F4U-4 are not on your stat card at all. If you had played them then people would be able to see that.

The fact that you were missing out so much basic information at the beginning of the thread lends to believe that you have never even touched them except
maybe by borrowing a friend’s account.

You are projecting. You call me an amateur because I disagree with you and bring facts to the conversation. You call me a brat because you assume you are older than I am.

I have been gracious enough to offer you multiple chances to prove my points wrong and you cannot.

Yes. The video shows that the turning characteristics of the Bf.109 and P-51 D-30 are relatively close with the Bf.109 having a large enough of an advantage to consistently win if flown correctly.

Ok? What is your point?

The charts that I have posted shows this general trend, but this is actually nothing except a gross simplification. For instance the Ki-84 is faster than most 5.0 planes, climbs better, and turns better.

The only difference between all of the P-51 airframes in-game is the manifold pressure that they use. The manifold pressure setting that the D-30 uses is the same one that was used during World War II.

By your logic the P-51 D-30 should be tiered above the P-51H because it was technically produced/retrofitted at a later date. Or that the S-199, a post war Bf.109 that is handicapped with a bomber engine should only fight post war aircraft.

Plane performance are fixed values. They do not change in games versus random players.

“Field” experience much more highly prizes situational awareness and ability to understand what needs to be done to put players in uncomfortable situations, as well as understanding the strengths and weaknesses of your airplane.

You can call me a brat all you want but the fact of the matter is that when it comes to fighting “in the field” I produce consistently better results than you do. Take any plane your stat card and compare your success rate to mine and you will see that I am more successful than you are.

So you are accusing me of cheating now? Is that it?

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67

Yes, I knew he was manipulative, but I couldn’t guess that he had a comprehension disability.

My friend, I am talking about the issue from 10 years ago. I played this game on console 10 years ago and bf109g2 and yak3p had the same BR rate. Maybe you weren’t playing at that time, it might not be enough for you. The fact that you go and reply as if you found something shows how interested you are in the subject.

Anyway. It is important not to feed the YouTube clowns. I was going to do 1v1 and get information from there, but whether I am a good player or not does not eliminate the injustice. So, when a good person plays it, the plane will be good, and when a bad person plays it, the plane will be bad? Or will you satisfy your ego? You see in your dreams.

I’m not going to reply to you again because you’re making it personal and diverting from the topic. See what you’re up to. I guess other friends can also make an inference based on the comments.

Friends, it is very important for those who have an opinion on the subject to comment. Don’t give credit to those who try to make things personal like this friend.

You are still saying that the p51 d30 is similar to other planes. So why are the numbers of p51h, d30 and d5 different? Are you kidding or what?

68

Kann man muss man aber nicht. Wenn man es nicht tut ist es immernoch eine Simulation. Ich mein du kannst quch in WT eine eigene schlacht nach deinen Wünschen machen. Meine Aussage ist ja dass das für die Einteilung simulation ja/nein keine rolle spielt. Du kannst ja auch in i racing einen formel wagen über Indianapolis jagen. Gibt keine rennserie die das tut, bleibt aber eine Simulation.

Aber du bist ja auch das genie, das glaubt ein grindsystem und ein simulator schließen sich aus… von daher erwarte ich nicht viel Verständnis

Du bist ja bekannt dafür dem Spiel abzusprechen dass es ne Simulation ist, nur weil die ein feature nicht passt. Ohne Rücksicht darauf ob das sinn macht. Die Fahrzeuge und deren Bedienung werden simuliert es ist ein simulation. IL2 hat auch server mit historisch inkorrekten setups… bleibt ne simulation.

Du bist derjenige der nicht mal unterscheiden kann zwischen einer Klarstellung über eine Definition und den Wünschen des posters. Das ist eine sehr einfache unterscheidung die nicht all zu schwer seien sollte.

69

Bomberschützen werden also perfekt simuliert

70

So he’s an ‘amateur’ because he doesn’t use landing flap in a dogfight….
If I’ve understood you correctly - and that’s the second time you’ve said something like that.

@FeetPics you may rest your case. Case dismissed.

71

You are alluding to the state of the game 10 years ago. It has absolutely nothing to do with the state of the game today.

You are the one that claims that the people I practice against are amateurs. I think it’s pretty obvious that you are not capable of doing any better than they are. Actually my assumption based on just the way that you speak is that you would do far worse.

I have not made this personal at all. I have posted facts. I have posted examples. You have done nothing but make false claim and resort to name calling. You are the one that attacks people and calls them amateurs while proving nothing of yourself.

For instance, you claim to have been playing the game for 10 years. If that is the case how are you only at level 88? How is it that in 10 years of gameplay experience that you have not been able to improve your gameplay beyond going roughly 1 to 1 against other players?

Are you that hopelessly lost in your search for self improvement that you lack the sense of self awareness that maybe you are struggling with other players because you are not that good yourself?

Of course not. The only way that you lose is because the opponent has an unfair advantage. It can’t be anything other than that.

Please explain to me what the functional differences between the D-5, D-10, D-20, and D-30 is. I don’t think you actually know.

72

He doesn’t even realize that one of the guys I am testing against in the videos are actually incredibly experienced players and are very good at the game.

I think if he tried to 1v1 any of them he would probably lose so badly that he would accuse them of cheating.

73

Nein, keine Simulation simuluert alles perfekt. Das ist ein selten dämlicher gedanke. Das geht schon gar nicht weil unser Verständnis über die welt gar nicht dafür ausreicht. Wissenschaft ist ein induktiver Prozess.

Abgesehen davon, müssen bomber keine simulation sein damit WT eine ist. Wie bereits gesagt müssen systeme und prozesse emuliert werden, nirgends steht dass das für alle Systeme und Prozesse gilt, wäre auch lächerlich weil Dan gäbe es gar keine simulationen.

Du schweifst aber mittlerweile sehr ab. Deine Argument war, dass WT aufgrund der unhistirischen matchuos kein Simulator ist.
Anstatt Strohmänner zu bauen bleib bei exakt dieser aussage, da ich exakt diese Aussage kritisiert habe.

Und meine gegenbeispiele bleiben bestehen, DCS iRacing und co verlieren ja auch nicht ihren simulator status weil sie historisch nicht korrekt sind.

Hör auf mit fadenscheinigen Argumenten und wenn dich jemand auf ein spezifisches Argument direkt anspricht, bleib bei exakt diesem Argument und komm nicht mut was anderen um die ecke was nicht kritisiert wurde. Das ist unehrlich und feige.

74

It is a pity that the men I witnessed seeing the KOREAN VETERANS in the game and leaving the game are not here.

Or, because they are masochists, they enjoy falling prey to much more useful aircraft that entered service 3 or 4 years later than they did. interesting

75

Stop spouting nonsense. I have seen German players like yourself quit when there is nothing remotely Korean War related anywhere near you.

The P-51 Mustang is a World War II fighter. It’s service in Korea was strictly limited to being a close air support platform, and the only thing that is different about a Korean War F-51 and World War II P-51 is the changing of the nomenclature and the addition of new radio/IFF equipment.

76

Now I’m starting to doubt your mind. Really. see a doctor.

My friend, are the D5, D30 and H series models different from each other in the game? yes it is different. Are their performances different from each other? (Let’s give examples since you are understanding impaired, climbing, speed, altitude performance) Yes, they are different. Did they go into production on different dates? Yes, they entered. These are the issues that concern us in the game. People don’t look at the fuel pumping pressure of the plane or anything like that. Are you a brat, are you a joke, are you doing business, are you an order, just ignore this title. Or let’s face it, you are right, yes. There is an expression in Turkish called “talk, crazy”. I guess we need to treat you this way now. well you are right. Ok.

Since you are a graphics fetishist, can you add HIGH SPEED MANEUVER CAPABILITY among these graphics?

That video you made caught my attention. It was obviously made against people who expressed the same problem. But I will not give up and will voice this on every platform.

Also, friends, yesterday, during a small visit to a high school, I looked at the scores. Apparently, the planes from the KOREAN WAR era were flying in the air with high scores. Well, we have to give credit where they go and match the planes of 44-45 with superior planes in every field that entered service in 46, 47, 48, 49 and 50.

77

Yet another insulting screed by a helpless wehraboo that can’t figure out how to fly his own plane, and someone who abandons the game as soon as it’s not one sided seal clubbing.

There is no good way to graphically model high speed turning characteristics otherwise I already would have. It’s not simply an issue of looking at turn rates at speed because energy loss also has to be taken into account.

The game I saw you in yesterday was capped at 4.7 BR. You left almost as soon as I showed up. I don’t think your skill issue has anything to do with Korean War planes and just comes from you blindly flinging a 109 around and thinking it should be better than everything without giving it a second thought.

If Gaijin really wanted to make things difficult for German mains they would make the engine power settings of Late-War Spitfires historically accurate. Good luck fighting a Griffon Spitfire in any of your Bf.109s.

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78

I`m really impressed by your patience and ability to stay calm when confronted with so much ignorance.

Hold the line 😉

79

As I mentioned in the first comment I opened the topic. The main players are always victimized by some people who nest in these forum environments. At this age, the forum environment never changes.

Of course, there would never be a lack of a flatterer right next to them. It was ignorance.

The man made good intentions as if he were joking. Don’t worry, I DO NOT FEED THE SUPERIOR PERFORMANCE AIRPLANES PRODUCED IN THE KOREAN WAR.

So I don’t know. Maybe such people are supported by the producers. However, the scores in the game do not lie. When we look at the whole, the alies side always has the high scores in high level sim wars. Although the producers undoubtedly knew better.

I feel like I’m arguing with an 11 year old. Keep keeping the topic alive. I hope the producers will take steps to correct the injustice.

If you’re wondering how I play, ask your friends, it’s a YouTube thing.

80

You are not victimized just because you can’t figure out how to play to the strengths of your plane.

You are not afraid of planes because they were made during the Korean War…you are afraid of anyone in your matches that is semi-competent with their planes and doesn’t just blindly turn fight on the deck and set you up for free kills.

Take for instance our most recent match. I showed up around 27 minutes into it and the Allied Team had a total of 6 kills while the Axis Team had a total of 15 kills…practically a 3:1 advantage. This was a 3.7BR - 4.7BR match and of course you are flying the highest BR possible Bf.109 that you can.

As soon as experienced Allied Players like myself and Greek_Air_Force showed up you had decided to quit the game in spite of your team already having a massive advantage with some fairly competitive players. The Fw-190 pilot that was 5-1 at the start was very good.

So instead of helping your team when you had one of the best planes at the battle rating…you pre-emptively quit and left them out to dry. Not because of OP-51…but because you just are not very good at fighting without a massive performance or numbers advantage. Your entire accusation about only fighting amateurs is just your own sense of projection.

Experienced players always have higher scores. Players that are playing in a team in voice chat have higher scores. The relative performance of the planes is secondary to player skill and team work in most cases.

In fact my highest scoring prop games are mostly while flying Axis planes like the Fw-190 A-4 or Bf.109 K-4.

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The only US plane that has overwhelmingly superior performance and ability compared to its German counter-parts is the F4U-4B Corsair. Pretty much every other plane that you are complaining about is just a terminal skill deficiency on your part.

On the other hand the Axis/Red side typically has access to all of the best fighters in the US tech tree and at a lower battle rating. Italy gets a P-47 D-30 at 3.7BR. China gets the P-51K, P-38J, and P-38L. Japan gets the P-51C. That isn’t to mention planes like the Ki-84 and J2M2 that climb better, turn better, and are effectively faster than most everything they face.

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81

This is false. They perform far better.

82

In my previous comments, I mentioned manual radiator control and complete opening of the flaps. I explained the strategies on how to duel safely against g10.

But you deliberately speak as if I were aware of all this. HOW CAN SOMEONE WHO DOESN’T KNOW THE FLIGHT CHARACTER OF PLANES CAN MENTION THESE DETAILS?

By the way, you can ask Greek Airforce about me :)

You are deliberately making things personal. I apologize for writing in capital letters because I am dealing with a friend who has a comprehension disability.

YOU ARE TRYING TO IGNORE THE GREAT INJUSTICE.

AND YOU ARE OPENLY LIEING ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE AIRPLANES.

IT IS CLEAR IN THE GRAPHICS YOU POSTED. YOU ACT AS LIKE THE 109 SERIES PERFORM MORE WITH SMALL DIFFERENCES.

Although the K4 series is better than the D30 in some aspects, these advantages on paper are crumpled and thrown away in high speed maneuvers.

After making our explanations to this understanding-impaired friend, let’s go back to our slogan.

FRIENDS, THE GERMAN AIRPLANES THAT ENTERED INTO SERVICE IN 1944-45 HAVE A HIGHER PERFORMANCE IN ALMOST EVERY SENSE. THEY FIGHT AGAINST THE AIRPLANES THAT WERE PLACED INTO SERVICE IN 1946 47 48 49 50 AND REMAIN WEAK.

GERMAN PLAYERS ALWAYS COMPETE AGAINST MODELS THAT ARE SUPERIOR TO THEM AND TRY TO ESTABLISH SUPERIORITY WITH THEIR PILOTING SKILLS.

AGAINST THEIR COMPETITORS WITH SIMILAR PILOTAGES, THEY APPEAR AS IF THEY WERE PLAYING WITH WW1 SERIES AIRPLANES.

WAKE UP!

83

You posted a theory that you have completely failed to prove. P-51 D-30 will not out-climb the Bf.109 G-10; it can only run away. If you try give the G-10 your tail in the merge by just flying straight it will just follow you as you try to climb and eventually shoot you down. You will not energy trap the G-10 unless you are running from map border to map border and trying to fight above 7km. It simply will not happen in the confines of the tournament map.

There is no line that the P-51 D-30 can take in the tournament map that allows it to safely defeat a late model Bf.109. If it comes down to a turn rate fight it loses. If it tries to compete vertically it also loses. The only way that it wins is if the Bf.109 pilot is not aggressive enough and gives up too much position in the first turn and cannot fly close to the limits of the plane.

You don’t actually know though. You keep loudly proclaiming that you do but cannot show any proof. Your argument is purely theoretical and its also a theory that I have already tested and there is no way to make it reliably work. The only circumstances where it is possible on EC maps is if the Bf.109 decides to try to follow P-51 D-30 while D-30 shallow climbs above its max speed. This is a 10 minute long process and is completely negated if Bf.109 goes into optimal climb speed. Then the best case scenario for P-51 is that fight starts with head-on at high altitude.

Why would I? Is your name supposed to carry some kind of gravitas with the entire sim community? For some reason I don’t think it does.

You are the one that keeps name calling.

You don’t like the data that I posted so you are now claiming that it is false. My testing data pretty much aligns with everyone else’s testing data with small discrepancies coming from the way that different tests are conducted.

The K-4 climbs better, accelerates better, and has a higher sustained turn rate than the P-51 D-30. Those are facts. The only speed range where the P-51 D-30 turns better than the Bf.109 K-4 are at speeds above 600kph IAS; the only time both of these planes will be in this speed range is after coming out of a dive. The D-30 has a very small window where it actually does turn better than the K-4.

And the high speed turn comes at a huge cost of energy so attempting to utilize is something that a smart Bf.109 player can play around. You can clearly see from duels with HosTavi that initial high speed turn is not an advantage that the P-51 D-30 can reliably utilize against even the Bf.109 G-6; the difference is just not large enough.

How about you actually stop lying? Here is a 3rd party performance chart for the P-51 D-5 and the P-51D-30.

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And here is a chart for all of the Bf.109s that share the same battle rating as the D-5 and D-30 in sim.

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Every single one of the Bf.109s climbs better than both of the P-51s. It is not even a close comparison.

The P-51 D-5 is almost a 1:30 slower to reach 6000m than the same tiered Bf.109. A contemporary Bf.109 will reach 6000m by the time it has reached barely above 4500m.

The only advantage the D-5 has is being only around 10-20kph faster than the Bf.109 G-14 and that is only at some altitudes. It is actually slower than the G.14 at 5000m. And while the top speed is higher…it’s acceleration, climb rate, and sustained turning ability is absolutely abysmal.

The P-51 D-30 compares much more favorable against the late Bf.109s because it has a much better climb rate and acceleration because it is running 75 inches of manifold pressure which is the same manifold pressure setting that was used late in World War II with 150 octane fuel.

If you compare Bf.109 K-4 top speeds to P-51 D-30 top speeds…the only place the P-51 D-30 has a top speed advantage is below 3000m, and it is once again only 10-20 kph. Above 3000m and the Bf.109 K-4 is faster.

So once again we are back to my final point.
The P-51 D-30 is appropriately tiered. It’s performance sits directly between the Bf.109 K-4 and the Bf.109 G-14. It still climbs worse and turns worse than any of the Bf.109s that it can face. The fact that you struggle against it just attests to the skill of some American players, or just attests to your lack of skill. Either way it comes down to a skill issue.

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84

The OP will just repeat the content of his previous comments. Save your time and just accept that this thread has reached it’s endpoint.

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85

lmao learn to fly