12x 1000lb
2x AIM-9L
2x CMS
Dont run 12x 1000lbs.
For 3 main reasons
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Diminishing returns - The more bombs you take, the less reward you actually get. if you can get 2 bases you will earn more than just 1x base with less bombs taken, but the rewards are heavily reduced
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That increase in mass and drag will result in you barely ever getting 1 base, let alone 2
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There is rarely enough targets for everyone only taking 1 base each. So most of the time, you’ll be dumping those bombs on nothing.
Switch to this loadout:
2x Aim-9Ls
2x BOZ
5x MK83s on the belly
45-50 minutes of fuel should be enough for a bomb run, though run max internal fuel if you want a little bit of leeway afterwards.
Ive also had some success with 40 minutes of fuel and combat tanks, that way I can ditch them if I need a sudden weight reduction, but it also means dealing with higher initial drag
not an option for the WTD61 at the moment, but if you get the MFG, or GR1, or the ASSTA1 ever gets AS-34s, then some ASMs on the wing pylons work kinda well too on some maps, yeet them at long range for a little extra score
(In theory, 5x MK83s is enough to kill a base, but it wont die straight away, it will tick down slowly when the base gets low enough, Run 6 though if you are worried about this)
This reduction in weight and drag will allow you to keep pace with other aircraft and in theory actually get base kills. Also the Tornado IDS handles a lot better when running a lighter warload.
Then, once you’ve dumped your bombs, go hunting. When lower on fuel as well as out of bombs, the Tonka can be okay in a fight if you are careful and make use of the combat flaps. Though try to third party.
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I’ll try it, thanks. :)
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How to make WTD61 worth its money
Add HARM to it…
Gaijin: nuh uh…
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The IDS WTD61 being my first premium, it was amazing when it was 10.7 because yeah, no decent radar and only dumb bombs it should be (even if IRL it could carry much more than that). Then it got upped to 11.0 with zero new equipment, and it was… okay, I guess? It is literally unplayable at 11.3 where you constantly get thrown against very-non-russian-bias or usa-number-one 12.3 and get demolished before you even get the chance to approach the base to bomb it. While every other 11.3 is just faster and lighter, like the MiGs who have napalm bombs.
No, you won’t convince me otherwise, I will not rest until the WTD61 is back on 10.7 or gets decent weaponry. This premium plane feels like a scam.
It wont ever go down to 10.7, just look at the ground attackers at 10.7 like the Jaaaaaags.
11.0… maybe… but I still dont consider it likely. I think the biggest hope for it would be decompression.
As for weaponry, the only weapon I can think of that would be ideal would be the addition of CBUs. Nothing else could be added to the WTD61 without massively increasing its GRB rating or ARB rating.
But playing the actually weaker GR1 since it got moved down to 11.3, its fine. You can usually make it to bases and even get a few kills, of course uptiers suck though.
I couldve told you that before it got upped from 10.7 lol
Wasn’t there a ‘big’ decompresion around that time, that extended the BR scale and moves quite a few aircraft up?
Again, it:
…shares ARB BR with AV-8B (Mavericks), F-5C (Bullpups), Su-39 (Kh-25, Kh-29L, Kh-29TE)
…shares GRB BR with Yak-38 (Kh-23M and a buttload of unguided rockets), and AV-8A (ZUNIs, Mighty Mouses)
…doesn’t get even one guided bomb, less so AGMs.
…and that’s just USA and USSR.
Yeah nah I’m not buying that line of reasoning.
NOT TO MENTION how bad unguided bombs are in GRB. No kidding, I dropped a series of ALL 12 BOMBS on ONE anti-aircraft gun in battle, and guess what? “Hit” god dammit.
and?
With the current state of ARB, not a single one of those listed weapons are ever actually worth taking, except maybe for a few easy AI kills on the way to PvP. If the Tonka even had any of those as an option it would be just to grab 1-2 AI kills on the way to taking out a base. Youd still be taking 5-6 Mk83s to take out a base as well.
In the GR1 I have access to PGMs and I literally never take them because they are more hassle than they are worth.
Its 9.7. With a boat load of unguided bombs and an amazing kit for that BR. only 0.3 lower is the Buc S2 which is subsonic, no A2A (not even a gun), and with CM pods, has less unguided bombs.
Im almost of the opinion 9.7 is actually too low for it.
I want a WTD61 equivalent for Britain for GRB. Id use it all the time in my 10.7 lineup, let alone 9.7 lineup.
And again. The better upgrade to retain its lower BR advantage by avoiding guided weapons would be CBUs. BL755 and MW-1 would be epic weapons for the WTD61 to get, but wouldnt necessarily increase its BR too excessively. They would be very fun weapons
Has no AGM options, but the GBUs would up its BR to 11.3 in GRB, making it a downgrade to the ASSTA1 and trust me, that BR sucks for the Tonka because there isnt much you can do vs most of the SPAAs you can encounter.
Never had much of an issue myself. Done plenty of high-alt CCRP bomb drops using unguided bombs from the Jaaag and gotten kills before, and thats at 10.3/10.7.
Try switching to impact fuse on the bombs with high drag bombs if you are doing low level runs. Bombs get a bit wierd with long fuse times in GRB
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Have you played on any of the German Tornados? I do regularly play the WTD61, and when the game demands I dodge 20 SARHs on my way to bomb one base, I’d say that’s a pretty bad experience. My friend who’s a real good pilot recommends against researching ANY German Tornados, as for the WTD61 he straight up said “you bought a turd, I’m sorry”
Ive extensively played the Tornado GR1 (identical except it has weaker engines) and the Tornado GR4 (12.3 version) and I can routinely reach bases in both, in addition to a track record with beating aircraft I have no buissness beating in gunfights.
How many bombs do you run in ARB?
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5 bombs, as per the recommendation of said friend. Again, I’ve learned notching, but ONE R-24R and I’m toast, and I have to dodge 2-3 of them on my way to a base! More often than not at once!
Then you’ve got the right loadout, but ive never experienced issues with dealing with SARH, with an excellent RWR, 1200 large chaff and Multi-pathing.
Heck. Try doing the same when dodging that many R-27ER, R-77 and Aim-54s. Now that is hard work. (GR4/SLE)
What alt are you flying at?
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I try to be as close as I can to the ground, again said friend recommended I put safe RALT to 60, and I’ve been trying to fly as low to the ground as I can basically. I’m not sure if it’s because these specific rockets from Viggens and MiGs are pulse-doppler but flying low and constantly throwing chaff doesn’t work, notching usually does unless there’s more than one.
If you fly at around 40m, then any SARH missiles fired from low alt should be defeated by Multipathing. (if you fly above 60m, then MP doesnt work, and flying too low can also be problematic, stay between 30-50m) Dumping a load of chaff can confuse the Mig-23s radar and R-24Rs as the radar is MTI, but the Viggens radar will only be affected if you enter a notch. Thankfully the Skyflash DFs the Viggen carries are quite short ranged and your RWR will warn if you one is tracking you, so you can defend early. Just keep an eye out for J37 pings.
But with basically infinite chaff, just keep dumping chaff always, because the worst it can do is nothing.
Whilst I find the Mig-23s very annoying. Never had that major of an issue defending against one in the GR1.
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Both can be true at the same time. But then again, the GR1 is so far off from the WTD61 it’s not comparable. You have ARMs, you have guided bombs, at the same BR, too. Case in point as to why the WTD61 and I’d even go to say even the ASSTA1 and MFG - none of them belong at 11.3, NONE. 11.0 maximum, just because of AIM-9Ls. The SLE version could go to 11.3, considering it has nothing going for it either, it’s easy food for MiG-29s and F-16s at its current 12.3 BR, where it goes against Pantsirs.
That cannot be used in ARB because there is nothing to fire at.
That are totally pointless to ever run because I can take out 12 targets using CCIP and unguided bombs vs 5 using a tpod and SAL weapons. And there is nothing in ARB that needs GBUs over unguided weapons.
Even in ASB, I literally never use them, because its easier to take out everything with unguided bombs.
TLDR: Guided weapons are completely useless in ARB 99.99% of the time.
If the comparison is ground. then one is 9.7 and pretty good, the other is 11.3 and totally DOA most of the time.
They could go 11.0, but I think they need to do a proper decompression first. One is maybe in the works though.
No.
First things first. Stop bouncing between Air and Ground and treating them as being the same thing.
Air:
It does have 2x IRCCM, I would personally place the SLE and GR4 currently at 12.0 in ARB alongside aircraft like the Mirage F1C. This would also move them out of sight of the Su-30s which is more than enough for them. Then it just needs decompression
Ground:
Ground gets messy. Id probably say 12.0 again, largely because of what is at 12.3, such as the F-18s and F-16s with far more consistant A2G, whilst also having better self-defence, not just against aircraft, but defending against SAMs. But ground air is so badly compressed, that nothing makes sense anymore. So I gave up a long time ago trying to understand what BR they place things at .
Coupled with actually fixing the outstanding issues with the Airframe, removing diminishing returns and overall improving the PvE side of ARB (or making NE actually worthwhile for anything not carrying a nuke) and the Tonkas would be fine.
Before the great compression (moving the F-15s down and adding the Su-30s) I was routinely getting 2-3 kills + a base kill in the GR4.
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Either way, the fundamental problem of all Tornado IDS is not their lack of weapons (even if, historically, they should have more than the scraps Gaijin gave the German ones specifically), but the massive discrepancy between their capabilities and their BR.
Look at the statistics: the WTD61’s win rate is sitting at around 28-41% on ThunderSkill. That’s not a “skill issue”, that’s a broken BR. At 11.3, it cannot realize its strengths (speed at low altitude, high bomb load) because everything else is faster, and it gets all the weaknesses (no decent radar, only 2 AIM-9Ls).
The GR.1 and GR.4 aren’t relevant to this discussion. You getting good performance out of them doesn’t cancel out the fact that the German Tornado platform has been systematically abused by Gaijin. The SLE at 12.3 is a “free kill” in ARB, and the WTD61 was fine at 10.7 but got uptiered into oblivion.
Until Gaijin actually decompresses the BRs or gives German Tornados the weapons they historically had, they will remain DOA.