I’m curious, do you guys even care about the Thai players’ opinions over this matter or are you guys gonna straight up ignore them? Thai people didn’t oppose adding their country to the Japanese TT as a subtree and they haven’t opposed the VT4 either (atleast definitely not a majority enough to cause what your people caused recently). In the end, it should be their say in the matter, not any other country’s matter whether or not their people are okay with their vehicles being added to a video game. You manufactured the vehicle, but they spent all the money to have these tanks as their own, you have no rights to talk in their name and demand these changes yourself, regardless of where their subtree is located. All you’re doing is just causing problems for matters other countries didn’t complain about before, neither Gaijin nor the playerbase benefits from all this misleaded outrage.
Thats the point, chinese players feel priviledged to decide over thai stuff so we just call them out…
I mean look at Germany Leopard 2 for four nations
Sweden have better Leopard than Germany
yet don’t see German players cry about insult to their nation but all they wanted just other uparmored Leopard to be equal to Sweden not asking Leopard2 to be removed from Sweden
this entire VT-4 incident is ridiculous and silly.
Finally, it’s time to change focus.
It’s time to proof don’t we?
Sorry for the long reply, I couldn’t get it any shorter and still fit everything I wanted to say.
This is also where I would start looking for solutions. I think at the core of this there is three sides to consider.
- Thailand, who operate their tank and deserve proper representation of their nation. → Thailand should have VT-4
- Japan, who need subtrees to keep up with other nations (as example I want to use Britain with South Africa, India and sometimes other Commonwealth) and are the home for the Thai subtree. → Japan should have subtrees similar to other nations, the Thai/Indonesian subtree shouldn’t be moved away
- China, who made the tank and willingly exported the VT-4 to Thailand, but don’t want Japan to assume power over it due to historical issues. → The VT-4 should not be placed under Japanese ownership, even implied
Now there needs to be a solution that fills all of those basic needs/demands in a way that is fair to all of these. Personally I would put the highest priority to Thailand, who own the tank in question. Japan and China take a secondary role, where their needs should still be met, but should allow for a level of flexibility needed to find a solution.
I had a few ideas myself on this matter that I can present, and talk about their advantages/disadvantages:
My first idea for the solution is not actually a new idea, and not made specifically for this issue, but it was a suggestion I made keeping similar ideas in mind.
This would consist of a rework that fundamentally changes the idea of subtrees in a way where these nations are no longer under another, but equal. They get their own research trees, and show their own nations flag and name. The functionality of sharing lineups stays, but as equals with no implied power to any nation.
Additionally national decal restrictions can be introduced, preventing the use of Japanese decals on Thai vehicles. Such restrictions are already present in other parts of the game and would be appropriate here.
Example of how France + BeNeLux would look in the nation selection, all nations get their own research trees that can be selected.The nation shown as the “main” one and displayed in the nation bar is simply the one that was last selected.
Example of the selected Thai research tree. The Thai flag is shown in the nation bar, and the nation is named Thailand.
→ Read the full suggestion for more detail
Advantages:
- Allows for more national identity for nations currently represented as “subtrees” and those that would be in the future
- Allows for more space for additions by giving the space of a full research tree to all nations
- Thai VT-4 can be implemented without issue, as there is no more implication of Japanese ownership or power over it.
- No compromises needed
Disadvantages
- Needs a lot of work and effort from Gaijin
This is rather self explanatory. It doesn’t change anything about the subtree system, it only changes the name and flag of the techtree, essentially making another nation the main nation while Japan is the subtree.
This could be Thailand, Indonesia, ASEAN or even a fictional solution, the specifics don’t matter as the effect is the same.
In terms of gameplay, nothing changes, but it does remove the negative implications that a nation placed under Japan has to many Chinese players.
Example for how this tree might look using the Thai nation.The techtree is functionally identical, but it is now the Thai tree, not Japanese.
National decal restrictions for Thai vehicles can still be implemented regardless, since that seems to be a big concern.
Advantages:
- Easy to implement
- Reverses/removes the implied power dynamic, allowing Thailand to receive their VT-4 without issue
Disadvantages
- General issues with the subtree system aren’t solved
- Compromises need to be made
→ Japan loses the national tree, becomes a subtree
→ VT-4 still shares a research tree with Japanese vehicles, even if it is a Thai research tree - Possible issues with DMM, who as Japanese publisher of the game would want a Japanese techtree to exist
→ A solution would be to keep the techtree as Japan in the DMM version of the game and/or the Japanese localization, but this might be an issue with Chinese players again.
Personally I believe renaming the tree can be an adequate temporary solution while work is done on reworking subtrees as well, but I’d be interested in hearing more ideas for how to fairly solve this issue.
→ I’d be interested to hear feedback from everyone on this, meaning Thai, Chinese and any other perspectives are appreciated.
I’d also say that I fully support many of the other points brought up by Chinese players, such as fixing historical issues with vehicles and general mistreatment of the potential the Chinese tech tree could have.
Look at this…
That’s right Polish tank in German TT
What Germany did to Poland 80 years ago is also “Horrible”
amount of Polish people protests about it?
Zero
Thai VT-4 belongs to Thai sub three and it should be in the game even if in Japan TT just like German Leopard 2 in Sweden French and Italy
no exception.
Sorry but I find this option absolutely ridiculous just to implement thai VT-4.
A) majority of vehicles are japanese, not thai
B) no offense to thai players, but thailand was not a major power during WW2, japan was
C) again, no offense to thai players, but im not aware of any indigenous thai weapon development beside some vehicle modifications. did they develop their own jet? or MBT? SPAA?
This does more harm than good to the whole topic.
Do i have to offer my lung to Chinese community or what? Dawg i just want to play my own nation in WT and i wait for Thai vehicle for like 7 year dawg
It’s a modification of a German tank, it’s pure logic that it goes to Germany, if Poland was a sub tree for example in the USSR, it would go to the USSR. Same logic applies to the Thai VT-4
didn’t see that apply to Thai VT-4 big thanks to Chinese.
None of those, but there is a few domestic aircraft and MLRS, generally for the lower ranks. Not a lot, but something.
Anyways for this one I don’t think it’s a good permanent solution either, mainly for the reason of DMM and, as you said, Japan just being the more popular nation. It’s more of a temporary solution for Gaijin to use while working on a more extensive rework of the subtree system.
But I don’t think it’s harmful.
Whether we like it or not, Gaijin will do something in response to the controversy, and knowing Gaijin they won’t care for Thai/international player opinions and just go for whatever way they think is easy. It’s easy for them to say Thailand won’t ever get the VT-4, or the Thai subtree will be removed from Japan, but neither of those are fair.
Changing the nations name and flag (which affects only the techtree, not the operator nation of any Japanese vehicle) is a change that can fix the problem Chinese players have similarly easily without hindering or sabotaging Thailand and Japan functionally.
I wouldn’t actively want this change, if it wasn’t for what’s going on on the forums I wouldn’t even suggest it, but I would prefer it over the alternatives.
Of course ideally I’d still rather see the subtree rework, which is a change I already wanted before and just so happens to help here. But that takes time and effort, I don’t think Gaijin is willing to choose it over an easy solution.
Thailand has VT4 there cannot be any objection to that in any way, shape or form.
Japan already has Thailand as a subtree, just like other nations you mentioned, that’s how countries with narrow vehicle pools are added into the game.
just lol, lmao even. what implication? VT4 comes with Thai flag, only thing related to Japan itself is the access through lower tier Japanese vehicles and even then Chinese have no saying in this, especially when this topic concerns Thai and Jap players waaaaay more than Chinese whether you like it or not.
there’s no need for a solution since there’s no “need”. demands however can be made but even they are arguably pointless for the fact I mentioned above, period.
VT-4 and T-84 will come into the game under Thai banner and we all know that Thailand (at least for the foreseeable future) will be accessed through Japanese tech tree, exactly like the BeNeLux through France, or S.Africa, India through UK and Nordics through Sweden.
Yes, that’s why I stated it as a basic need that can’t be objected to.
Yeah, this is what I meant as well. The Thai subtree should not be removed, neither should Indonesia. But of these are supported by players from those nations, and they are the only ones that should be able to object (which they haven’t). Otherwise it’s not a fair treatment compared to other nations.
You know ASEAN itself also got their own “disagreement” right? Changing Japan to Thailand sure will shuted those Chinese players’ mouths but also causing other ASEAN players unhappy, the forum will be more “interesting” that time😅
The “needs” are fair treatment for Thailand and Japan, as those should be treated fairly by standards already set in the game by other nations.
The demands, whether we like it ot not, not only exist but will cause a reaction from Gaijin in some way. They may reject them, but they may also just block a Thai tank or remove the entire subtree from Japan. I’m not taking my chances with that, so if there is a way to suggest a solution that doesn’t involve such unfairness that the Chinese community might agree on then I’m taking it.
And since that chance just so happens to be an opportunity to advertise my subtree rework, which has no relation to this issue and just so happens to solve it anyways, then I’m absolutely taking that chance.
Damn. I wonder what was the Gaijin’s reaction when India became subtree within the UK subtree…
Gaijin doing anything because community didn’t like it: ❌
Gaijin doing anything because Chinese community didn’t like it: ✔️
Maybe, now that you mention it I didn’t actually think about that. I just thought if we don’t put any Cambodian vehicles under the Thai flag this should still not be worse than now, but considering the VT-4 situation was similarly unexpected for me I guess I wouldn’t know unless it happens.
But if you know history, you’ll find that the Chinese army actually captured Japanese tanks. And Japan doesn’t possess the VT-4. So for two countries with such a strong historical connection, this approach is actually inappropriate.
No, ASEAN disagreement not all about political, is just pure hate drived by nationalism, but luckily (or in this case unlucky) they just fight on internet 😅