I’m talking about difficulty to notch specifically, not overall strenght of the missile. I don’t think the Fakour is particularly difficult to notch, tho it’s so fast you have to be in defensive position before it start active guidance.
Superior in range and speed, ER is harder to notch
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As the alledged american superiority prior to the ARH introduction, forgetting that the R-27ER was singlehandedly the reason Russia controlled most of BVR encounters.
This thing of supposedly being disengenuous is nothing new to air discussion in this forum.
We can sit here and argue whether or not the R27ER should have been added, but that has nothing to do with the points I made. Regardless, you and I know that no one flew above 100M for this very reason. You have the SMT so tell me, before it got FOX3s, how was it’s FM competitive in the WVR meta?
Not if you manage to fire the R-27ER first. If you manage to position yourself in a significant advantage, your missile will connect regardless of what your opponent does, from launching a fox-3 to going defensive. If y’all can’t get that singlehanded point, then it’s a substantial skill issue.
So you’re making a non 1-1 argument and still trying to say it’s more powerful? All things equal, you know what happens.
You’re playing with a slight technological disadvantage, yet you’re still proposing an equal-to-equal situation. That’s again, a inherent skill issue. I’m telling this for the last time: Play around the missile strengh (having an absurd booster and capable to reach absurds amounts of speed), not by playing as another ARH slinger, you’ll find way less frustration and inferiority complex by doing so. You don’t like it? Cope, or grind the US tree.
Lol. So you’re admitting that the AMRAAM is more capable now, assuming all variables/launch parameters are the same?
I’m not lying by any means. Don’t treat the USSR tech tree like it has been mistreated for the longest time, as it clearly has been handheld in the missile department for quite a good while up until ARH missiles, where clearly still has a strong point in the medium to close quarters slingling.
I’m not.
And obviously Armchair will agree with you, he’s brainwashed into believing that the R-27ERs were and still are alledgely close to useless, and the BVR meta prior to ARH missiles were not the R-27ER slinging, but the freaking anemic AIM-54s before march’s buff.
Ad hominems don’t strengthen your argument.
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And i’ve done that as well, not the most shiny performances, but by no means suffering.
That’s the point, it’s not useless. But one of the folks here has been following this narrative that the missile is near a waste of a pylon, when it clearly is not the case. A waste of pylon would surely be a Skyflash (DF) at 13.0, but not any R-27ER/T.
Why i shouldn’t admit that on paper, any ARH is technologically superior to a SARH? A different thing is their individual assets. On that regard, the R-27ER is still the fastest missile in the game within the average encounter distance by a long shot, and has one of the most competitive seekers in the entire game.
By assuming that Russia suffers on a unparalleled scale, you do.
And making up narratives that has been proven wrong throughout the entire game’s history doesn’t strengthen the actual need for russia to get some buffs.
Which is undermined by the fact that a Fox-3 user can shoot and immediately evade while the Fox-1 user has to hold his lock. This is a massive boon that lets even bad Fox-3s pull ahead of the very best Fox-1s in real combat situations where people are shooting back against you.
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The HMD buff to 20km saved the plane, ngl. It was unusable before. And Gosh dang I tried. Playing the 2000-5F at the same time it was painfully obvious which plane was suited for top tier and which one wasn’t. MICA have maybe 15km of effective range, but they are truly dangerous to anything that get within that range (if they don’t spin out of control) and M2000 has excellent energy retention at high speed on top of excellent top speed.
I still didn’t buy the 27SM yet because I absolutely loathe the base Su-27 radar. I’d rather buy the Yak141 whenever I have some SL to spare to play the only russian plane with a good flight model.
I’m honestly tempted to go for the Su-34 afterward even if I have to grind the entire bomber line. The radar is good and it carries 6 ET.
Why i shouldn’t admit that on paper, any ARH is technologically superior to a SARH? A different thing is their individual assets. On that regard, the R-27ER is still the fastest missile in the game within the average encounter distance by a long shot, and has one of the most compeititive seekers in the entire game.
Sure, but you make your argument based on having a positioning advantage that any SARH would benefit from. In a “joust” where both the SU27 and an ARH carrier fire, you still lose. By the time you splash the other plane, good luck notching his missile that requires no carrier radar to guide. Especially with the 60 degrees of radar deflection you have.
By assuming that Russia suffers on a unparalleled scale, you do.
And where did I say that? Does Germany not suffer with an F4 as it’s top fighter lol?
And making up narratives that has been proven wrong throughout the entire game’s history doesn’t strengthen the actual need for russia to get some buffs.
And using fallacious arguments to make something appear in a way that it’s not is better? Because that’s exactly what you’re doing.
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Well thats assuming both carriers fire at the exact same time.
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In my place, people call it a trade. Isn’t that better than not having a kill at all? I’m pretty sure that, out of any of the existing tech trees in the game, curiously any plane capable of bringing the R-27ER is at least capable to do so. While for example, you get any plane using a Skyflash/Matra 530D/AIM-7whatever variant and it’ll lose having that particular advantage a significant amount of times against an ARH missile, cause all of those SARH are slow enough so they can be notched, while the R-27ER has that individual advantage.
They indeed suffer moreso than most of tech trees, that’s an actual problem.
If you still think that the R-27ER doesn’t have a chance even with a slight positional advantage against ARH slingers, then i will clearly say that i’m proving better.
And that’s the problem, if people here assume that the R-27ER or the R-77 should be played as a exact counterpart of the AIM-120, they’ll clearly lose every encounter.
The same that happened way before ARH when US mains used AIM-7F/Ms to joust as equals to the R-27ER: you just can’t expect to win those encounters being the technological and practical underdog.
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In my place, people call it a trade. Isn’t that better than not having a kill at all? I’m pretty sure that, out of any of the existing tech trees in the game, curiously any plane capable of bringing the R-27ER is at least capable to do so. While for example, you get any plane using a Skyflash/Matra 530D/AIM-7whatever variant and it’ll lose having that particular advantage a significant amount of times against an ARH missile, cause all of those SARH are slow enough so they can be notched, while the R-27ER has that individual advantage.
I don’t personally play to trade. Thus I just don’t carry the R27ER. It’s more of a pain to cycle through 4 different missiles than it’s worth. It doesn’t offer enough of an advantage to take over the R77. And no one’s arguing that the ER is the same as other SARHs, rather that using it in a “joust” is pointless unless you plan to trade. Trading is unlikely too, unless you’re very close to your opponent, because he can simply go cold and notch your awful N001.
If you still think that the R-27ER doesn’t have a chance even with a slight positional advantage against ARH slingers, then i will clearly say that i’m proving better.
Feel free to check stats if you like. You’re the one considering a trade to be a worthwhile use of your time.
The Fox3 shooter gets significant leeway to shoot second since he doesn’t need to maintain closure rate. The best that the fox1 shooter can do is crank a bit. The Fox3 shooter can fully go cold, focus on multipathing between the 40m tall mega trees, or dive behind a mountain or into a canyon. This are things that happen in real combat situations all the time in game.
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Feels like I’m taking crazy pills arguing against these kinds of statements.
I don’t get the end goal? Do they just want the USSR to continue being weak for the sake of dominance or do they legitimately feel like that makes for a balanced game? There’s zero debate anymore that the USSR air tree is significantly weaker than the US tree in ARB.
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There’s no argument that the Russian air tree is weak rn and is in desperate need of a better fighter but implying the R-27ER is weak is wrong.
I also don’t believe the R-27ER is equal to the AMRAAM. However, it is very much possible to get kills with it against AMRAAMs in BVR.
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It’s not weak. That’s not my argument. My argument is purely that in a FOX3 game, it’s only strong when used asymmetrically. In a joust against anything with a FOX3, the R27ER carrier is at a big disadvantage.
Well you can focus on asymmetric jousts. I’ve gotten 70km BVR kills against AMRAAM carriers with the ER. You don’t have to use the ER on missile jousts, that’s why you have the R-77.
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I still get my share of kills with GUNS too. That doesn’t mean guns are meta. Just a few BR steps down with the Su-24 I routinely sucker punch people with freaking laser guided Kh-25’s. It’s very much possible to get those kills like that. Far cry from meta though.
That is not the same.
Well you can focus on asymmetric jousts. I’ve gotten 70km BVR kills against AMRAAM carriers with the ER. You don’t have to use the ER on missile jousts, that’s why you have the R-77.
But the situations where you can actually do this is few and far between. That’s assuming whatever you fired on
A. Ignores the launch warning and does not defend
B. Does not close the distance and counter your launch
C. No one else fires on you requiring you to go defensive
I’ll be honest, I’m not getting your point. You’re proposing a few-and-far between situation that while, yes, it can happen, does not in any way make an R27ER carrier inherently stronger.
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