Tools using data provided on port 8111

[themadseventeen]

Until now tools visualizing data from a webserver that runs locally on port 8111 has been allowed. This server is created by the game process itself.

One of the most popular tools using this has been WTRTI. This allows players to get an overlay rendered over the game and present additional information using data from the webserver. This included thing like fuel left (in mass, not time), current AoA and similar. It could also play sounds on certain events, like low fuel for example.

War Thunder officials were fine by this.
I also wanted to make an overlay like this, so I asked a Tech Mod for permission (as is, if it was allowed)
This is the answer I got.

Why don't we have an API for war thunder?

Yes. Modification/Altering is different from addition. You can display your own stuff over the game window, same thing WTRI is doing or any other game overlay app (Discord, Steam, MSI Afterburner, RivaTuner OSD, etc.). If there is no modification and only playing with the already available stuff, then it’s fine. There is my own app called WTbgA that uses the same LAN API. No modifications, but only processing the API’s data. Just know that processing the information on the game’s screen can b…

They clearly state that using data exposed at 8111 is allowed. What isn’t allowed is using rendered frames, and obviously any memory modifications/reads.

Seems in line with what we knew. This is how WTRTI operates.

Now we ran into the issue. A few hours ago a player created the same type of overlay, only using the data in a smarter way. It was deemed “not allowed” by War Thunder staff. Why?
The script has since been removed from the forum, so I am not going to link it again. But it only parsed data from 8111, processed it and then displayed it on the screen. The video of the tool in action was also removed

Here’s the thread in question.

HUD with localhost data. Legal or illegal

I made a HUD with localhost data for flight simulators. I take the player’s data, get location and heading. Then I get the location of the targets on the map. Then I make only those that are ±45 degrees forward to be displayed on the screen. Then I calculate the heading error and the distance, and they are represented across the screen. I only use localhost data, I did it using Python and I can share the code if you wish. I would like to know if it is lawful or not, as I do not want to infringe …

Also answers from a GM and Stona.

HUD with localhost data. Legal or illegal

How you even come to the idea that this would be allowed is quite beyond me, sorry. War Thunder Specific Rules (gaijin.net) (especially Section 6)

HUD with localhost data. Legal or illegal

In our opinion, this type of script breaks the rules: 6.1.3 Installing or using unauthorised modifications to the game client, using cheats or other software or devices that modify the game process and/or the original game generated images (including modifying the game interface) to gain an advantage in the game without express authorisation from Gaijin. The use of such automation may result in your account being banned.

The player’s script adheres to Section 6. It neither exploits bugs, nor does it modify the client, nor does it use images rendered by the game. It works in the exact same way as WTRTI.

Does this mean that WTRTI is bannable now? What about that script that a Tech Mod wrote?
So many conflicting information by official sources.
Would like a clarification on this.

[Dontkev-psn]

Round 2?

[themadseventeen]

Thank you for unlocking the thread.

I am just very confused why this isn’t allowed while other overlays are.

[Michael-IR]

From what I know WTRI shows you a raw live-time data of your plane and your plane alone so to my understanding it differs from overlays modifying game’s visuals and available tools (for example the minimap).

[S-200VE_Vega]

You’re not gaining a clear advantange by using the legal tools. They are allowed nothing has changed.

[danredda]

Personally, coming from other games that compete with this one I learned that any and all advantages players can get from game data being accessible, will be exploited. I also learned that a lot of the good ideas people have at one point can instead be brought into the game properly through UI enhancements done by the developers.

Personally, I would prefer if these “grey areas” were closed - even if that means that tools like WTRTI cease to function. There are too many things where you can gain an unfair advantage against players who do not have these tools. For example, I mocked this up in paint as something theoretically possible using the map data (NOT REAL)

You could even hypothetically calculate target ranges in ground RB or other modes that add markers to the map.

And sure, disabling the map in localhost could fix a lot of this but things like being able to track/use the perfect AoA in aircraft like the F-16 because you know your exact AoA are an inherent gameplay advantage that separates the has and the has nots and that information is still not readily accessible through an in-game UI setting.

TLDR: IMO useful information from things like WTRTI should be exposed natively in the game through customisable UI settings (AoA indicator etc.), and the localhost access should be closed - because for every 1 person posting publicly about it, there are probably several more keeping quiet about their tool that provides an inherent advantage. For those that want to display maps/or do full simpits, there should be some way to provide that information in a way that is consistent with the game UIs and does not contain the raw position data etc. - perhaps localhost only being available for custom battles and test flights is a fair compromise to allow people to collect data/do analysis of flight profiles etc. without affecting gameplay in random battles

[Cpt_Bel_V]

@Stona_WT : while the personnal installation of the script created by @HALCON_1982 is wrong, i do think that such HUD improvements should be made for aircrafts that had those IRL, through:

Navigationnal Point
Ground Radar / Air radar
Targeting Pods

Some feature of the game permits already to create a lock for CCIP/CCRP/AGM features, and could be also used for improvised NAV.Point

[themadseventeen]

@Cpt_Bel_V

@Stona_WT : while the personnal installation of the script created by @HALCON_1982 is wrong,

I don’t think we are discussing right and wrong, but allowed and banned. Some people think ULQ is “wrong” or “cheating”, but it’s obviously allowed. There is a setting for this, provided by the game. This is the same. There is data, provided by the game. If the devs don’t want it, they should remove it

[Cpt_Bel_V]

Personnal installation being wrong, while From dev it is right, similar than allowed or banned.

[themadseventeen]

What???

[themadseventeen]

There is no modification here, only “addition”.

[Sarcastic_Bullet]

@themadseventeen

Some people think ULQ is “wrong” or “cheating”, but it’s obviously allowed. There is a setting for this, provided by the game. This is the same.

That is not even remotely the same. You are comparing a setting which the devs made available in the game menus, with data that needs to be collected by a 3rd party software and then displayed in the ingame HUD.
The fact that this data is available with simply snooping the info going through the port, is not the same as having it displayed using ingame menu settings. This is more of a failure from the devs to properly secure the info sent to and from the servers, and I would bet that it is the main attack vector for all the ESP, bots and wallhacks cheats that are present in the game.

[themadseventeen]

@Sarcastic_Bullet

This is more of a failure from the devs to properly secure the info sent to and from the servers

This is simply untrue, this data is here so that apps like War Thunder Assistant can work. It’s made available exactly for this purpose. Why would it have CSS if it was simply going to and from the game server? Why would it have a image of the map?

[Stona_WT]

Generally speaking, using localhost data to display overlays is considered fine and not a bannable offense. However, displaying enemy markers in a markerless mode incorporated into a compass-heading-style UI overlay, which our map tool doesn’t do, gives advantage over others players. This is clearly demonstrated in the video — this is where there’s a fine line as it can be considered an ESP overlay. While we won’t permanently suspend any account without a preceding temporary ban or a warning, we do not approve using this data in such way even if it is publicly available.

[Schindibee]

Apart from being a GM, I’m also a Air Sim EC player (almost exclusively so these days), and I belong to the part of the community that actually enjoys the need to check your map for flying in sim, try to figure out position of targets to be able to find them…

Of course I’m also for implementation of tech that allows to display such info like navigational data on the maps if applicable (e.g. position of mission targets etc. on MFD’s as already implemented where applicable, maybe even possibility for real NAVAIDS and waypoints), IF REALISTIC, and using realistic displaying of such info in the cockpit.

And yes I also think that WT still has potential for a lot of growth in this regard (especially in high tier), and also I myself put work into suggestions going in this direction (e.g. simplified selection of mission targets for CCRP and their identification on the game map, improved weapons selection and configuration,…).

But I totally oppose “RB-style” markers overlaying the info the pilot actually got IRL to aid in Sim for some players, and especially so if they come as a script offering this advantage only for a few.

[themadseventeen]

Oops, accidentally removed that post. I’ll repost

Then remove it. Update your terms of service. How is someone supposed to find this information. Go diving through old forum posts?

[Schindibee]

@themadseventeen

Update your terms of service

Terms of service are clear enough:

6.1. The following behavior constitutes unsporting conduct and is explicitly prohibited hereunder:

6.1.3. Installation or usage of unauthorized modifications to the Game client, using cheats or other software or devices that modify a Game process and/or original images produced by the Game (including the modification of a Game interface) to obtain an advantage in a Game without explicit authorization from Gaijin.

6.1.4. Other actions that violate the principle of fair play.

[Schindibee]

@themadseventeen

There is no modification here, only “addition”.

Guess what an aimbot does: An “addition” of info to help identify and aim at players that others don’t have…