That’s my point.
ALL SPAA is useless against CAS, and all ten tech trees need new SPAA.
Of course @PyroAddict argues that SPAA is currently fine.
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That range Alvis is literally the furthest SPAA in the game right now.
It’s the best even compared against their immediate competitors.
Your classic ragebait in the end doesn’t affect me, you’re clearly not in the will of discussing critically about the topic.
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@PyroAddict
Ah yes, everyone that wants SPAA capable of fragging CAS are all ragebaiting you.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Morvran and I are not ragebaiting anyone.
Stop protecting CAS from criticism with blatant character attacks.
Not saying they don’t
But Pantsir vs F-16C is a much fairer fight than Su-34 vs ADATS. Considering its been 2 years since the Pantsir was added. Them dragging their feet so much has people deeply frustrated and with CAS getting continuous notable buffs, especially the soviets that had one major weakness at top tier, which was the lack of fixed wing CAS now have the best fixed wing CAS in the game. has people rightly frustrated. (especially in the same update where they denied mmV Brimstones due to reasons that could be readily applied to most other AGMs especially KH-38s)
We are also only talking about 1x F-16C vs 1x Pantsir. Yes, F-16C stands a good chance of winning that fight.
But 1x F-16C that costs 900+ SP to spawn in with AGMs vs 2 or 3 Pantsirs that cost 70 SP each?
No AGM-65 will make it to the target and the F-16C will have to defend hard or spend most of the match idling
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You’re saying most of strike aircrafts have a chance against the Pantsir, and most of SPAAs have the same perks to negate air superiority and CAS.
This Alvis, is a clean example of how your narrative is not exactly convincing.
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Pantsir loses to F-16C/Su-34/Mirage 2000/Tornado GR4 100% of the time.
I know this cause I used the Mirage 2000 and Tornado ASSTA against Pantsirs both in random battles where Pantsirs are more likely to be distracted by spawn pushers, and in 1v1s where the Pantsir can give me 100% of their attention.
I’ve been arguing for good SPAA since 2022 when Harrier GR7 easily out-ranged everyone.
@PyroAddict
CAS being OP is a known reality. Go look at videos from OddBawz and other content creators complaining about how unkillable CAS is; the narrative I’m using is clearly correct with all evidence gathered. I have the full force of the WT playerbase opposing CAS’s impunity.
Also, Morvran, that’s a criticism of air spawn [which is optional] range to the battlefield, not SPAA.
The more accurate statement would be:
"Pantsir loses to F-16C/Mirage 2000/Tornaado Gr4 100% of the time if the aircraft is flown optimally and the weapon systems are used to their maximum performance. You must be actively defending against the Pantsir throughout your attack and often have to utelise multiple weapons simutaneously to avoid them being fully intercepted. "
vs
“Su-34 simple has to spawn in, locate the target and fire before heading back to the airfield to rearm. Little skill is required to defeat an ITO, ADATS, Tor-M1, Type 81, Imp C or Otmomatic. Throughout the entire attack, the Su-34 is only in danger if the pilot makes a notable mistake or becomes overly confident. The only thing they really need to worry about is the enemy spawning CAP whch costs 700+ SP”
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So to sum up CAS are OP , SPAA suck. The only nation with good enough SPAA now have the strongest CAS in the game. I don’t know why you guys keep arguing about it when we all agree on one thing , that every nation need better SPAA and CAS should get nerfed across the board.
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The issue is while Pantsir is the “best” it’s the best of SPAA that’s incapable of fragging CAS.
And many wanting Pantsir equivalent SPAA are CAS mains wanting to remain unkillable, cause the real solution is SPYDER equivalent SPAA.
War Thunder has needed 20 - 25km since January 2023.
I don’t know if CAS should be nerfed, but the time of ARH-based SPAAs has arrived, and said arrival is necessary for most if not all countries.
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ARH SPAA is likely too powerful, however War Thunder does need Python-5 based SPYDER at minimum as well as other 20 - 25km based SPAA solutions.
If and when we see the results of Gaijin fixing 20km limit on CAS, we can see if more is needed.
Agreed. But I think we can all agree that KH-38s should have been added with or after those new SPAA were added (and in fairness, probably other weapon systems like the PGM-2000 and later AGM-65 variants)
Instead as you said, we’ve needed new top tier SPAA for at least 2 years now and the fact we’ve gotten nothing is deeply concerning, especially for the 7 nations with very weak top tier SAMs and the 2 with absolutely none.
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CAS should be , cause top tier isn’t the only BR in the game. Low tier BR have no way of countering CAS beside spawning in their plane, It will benefit ground battle as a whole not just top tier , while I agree that if artificial nerf might be too much. Then increase the cost of SP for CAS weapon should be enough but that should be left for another thread I guess
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They won’t be, their range will be significantly hindered by the lack of any initial speed, the most powerful aspect will be the opportunity to completely negate CAS capabilities for way more time than nowadays (now that i think about it, we were talking about SPAAs right? They would actually do their job 🤔)
And everybody in the middle is just
Testing would confirm or deny that suspicion.
And I apologize for any combative language my previous posts have, we have to work together.
could not agree more
The issue is that early ARH SAMs wouldnt be strong enough. I think the early SLAMRAAMs had a range of about 15km. But the later ones might be too strong with a range of about 40km.
The issue is the lack of SAM options in that 20-30km range mark. So either they would need to nerf them a bit or jump SPAA ahead notably and add weapon systems like ARM alongside them.
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Nerfing them to that 20-30km range wouldn’t be a bad idea.
I would def agree with this compromise, it follows the same principle of the counterfactual addition of a weakened R-73 to the MiG-29 some years ago.