Both go top-down when launched properly, which means they’re effectively the same.
9000 meter high launch altitude means that if you launch at <18km, you’re dropping right on their head [and I launch AGMs from 11,000 meters up, only GBUs get the 9000 meter treatment.].
Go play 5 matches at top tier with any country other than Russia. It is completely unplayable currently. You have 2 minutes to get into something to play CAP with Aim120s for 700 sp meanwhile there is 2-3 pantsir every match (100 SP vehicle cause thats fair) trying to shoot you down as well while the su34’s are completely uncontested slinging kh38’s from outside the range of every AA that’s not the pantsir.
Exacerbating the problem is that the premium US teammates never spawn SPAA. Often times I triple or quadruple spawn AA with backups but it doesn’t matter because even Adats can do nothing. You have to get super lucky with some idiot flying slow inside of 8km because the missiles have no maneuverability at long range.
CAS overall is OP but this update has made top tier completely unfucking playable. I have over 1kd on all vehicles and winrates are now down into the low 30% or on the M1A2 27%. Its fucking pathetic and horrible balancing from Gaijin.
GOD forbid I want to play some actual tanks and not get nuked by some CAS retard every other minute.
Also stop setting up false equivalencies saying “bUt US hAS oP CAS” the game is completely unbalanced with ONE country having by far the best CAS and the same country having by far the best anti air.
8 Likes
Congratulations.
As I said replay or did not happened.
1 Like
Just doubled checked, that is not entirely true.
AGM-65s dont have IOG. So if the missile is targeting something specific and the target smokes, the misslile will loose lock and self destruct.
KH-38s have IOG. So if the target smokes, they have to move out of the way, if they were previously moving, they have to stop and change directions, otherwise the missile will hit the target still
Granted this is now a capability that has just been given to the PGM
Combine with the significantly higher speed and longer burn time of the motor, KH-38s are also more reliable at longer ranges, especially against moving targets or on more cluttered maps. There is less time for the target to react and get into cover.
Pantsir can at the very least engage at ranges up to 16-18km away and can reliably intercept and shoot down multiple incoming AGM-65s (I once had a match where I fired 9x PGM-2000s at a Pantsir and none got even close) and possibly even fire a max range pot shot at something like a harrier Gr7, Tornado, F-16 etc (The air spawn point is well within range of a Pantsir so you have to actively defend on spawn, especially as you wont always know if you are being shot). Something like an ADATS will never get a shot oppotunity against an Su-25SM3 let alone a Su-34 which is ultimately the core of the issue.
10 Likes
I always get the feeling that Alvis thinks it’s fair to invest 800 SP (and losing the ability to capture points) to negate air superiority whenever you’re not a certain nation with a currently unparalleled SPAA.
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Pantsir has a range of 18km <8000 meters altitude against drones.
It has not been tested against any other targets at higher altitudes.
Pantsir has a range of ~13km against jet CAS whose altitude is above 8000 meters.
@PyroAddict
The fact you think SPAA is good is proof you’re a CAS main that wants to stay unkillable.
Keep defending CAS and Soviets.
1 Like
This is always my biggest complaint with the current situation at top tier. Its pointless for me to spawn an ADATS except for dealing with helis and the best solution is for me to spawn in a CAP (did this the other day with the FA2 and wiped out half the other team without much effort, few people know what chaff is in GRB) but the Pantsir can at very least be considered a threat to any aircraft in game and it cost 10x less than even a “weak” CAP aircraft like the FA2
3 Likes
Vs the 8-10km range of the ADATS and you can quickly see why people are frustrated with the situation.
If absolutely nothing else. If I spawn in a Tornado vs a soviet team. I am actively defending the moment I spawn in. Dropping CMs, and turning hard in an attempt to create lateral movement and usually diving to gain speed (spawn speeds really need to be increased)
Vs any other team though, (or if it is against a soviet team but I can see our team has a decent amount of air superiority already), I just fly in a straight line. Only reacting if I see a threat or my RWR starts screaming at me. Allowing me time to take stock of situatioin and maybe even unload my payload of wepaons right there and then. But usually, vs something like an ADATS, I just drop a weapon on them and carry on with my day as if what I was bombing was just an IFV that had no SAMs.
3 Likes
That’s my point.
ALL SPAA is useless against CAS, and all ten tech trees need new SPAA.
Of course @PyroAddict argues that SPAA is currently fine.
2 Likes
That range Alvis is literally the furthest SPAA in the game right now.
It’s the best even compared against their immediate competitors.
Your classic ragebait in the end doesn’t affect me, you’re clearly not in the will of discussing critically about the topic.
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@PyroAddict
Ah yes, everyone that wants SPAA capable of fragging CAS are all ragebaiting you.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Morvran and I are not ragebaiting anyone.
Stop protecting CAS from criticism with blatant character attacks.
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Not saying they don’t
But Pantsir vs F-16C is a much fairer fight than Su-34 vs ADATS. Considering its been 2 years since the Pantsir was added. Them dragging their feet so much has people deeply frustrated and with CAS getting continuous notable buffs, especially the soviets that had one major weakness at top tier, which was the lack of fixed wing CAS now have the best fixed wing CAS in the game. has people rightly frustrated. (especially in the same update where they denied mmV Brimstones due to reasons that could be readily applied to most other AGMs especially KH-38s)
We are also only talking about 1x F-16C vs 1x Pantsir. Yes, F-16C stands a good chance of winning that fight.
But 1x F-16C that costs 900+ SP to spawn in with AGMs vs 2 or 3 Pantsirs that cost 70 SP each?
No AGM-65 will make it to the target and the F-16C will have to defend hard or spend most of the match idling
6 Likes
You’re saying most of strike aircrafts have a chance against the Pantsir, and most of SPAAs have the same perks to negate air superiority and CAS.
This Alvis, is a clean example of how your narrative is not exactly convincing.
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Pantsir loses to F-16C/Su-34/Mirage 2000/Tornado GR4 100% of the time.
I know this cause I used the Mirage 2000 and Tornado ASSTA against Pantsirs both in random battles where Pantsirs are more likely to be distracted by spawn pushers, and in 1v1s where the Pantsir can give me 100% of their attention.
I’ve been arguing for good SPAA since 2022 when Harrier GR7 easily out-ranged everyone.
@PyroAddict
CAS being OP is a known reality. Go look at videos from OddBawz and other content creators complaining about how unkillable CAS is; the narrative I’m using is clearly correct with all evidence gathered. I have the full force of the WT playerbase opposing CAS’s impunity.
Also, Morvran, that’s a criticism of air spawn [which is optional] range to the battlefield, not SPAA.
The more accurate statement would be:
"Pantsir loses to F-16C/Mirage 2000/Tornaado Gr4 100% of the time if the aircraft is flown optimally and the weapon systems are used to their maximum performance. You must be actively defending against the Pantsir throughout your attack and often have to utelise multiple weapons simutaneously to avoid them being fully intercepted. "
vs
“Su-34 simple has to spawn in, locate the target and fire before heading back to the airfield to rearm. Little skill is required to defeat an ITO, ADATS, Tor-M1, Type 81, Imp C or Otmomatic. Throughout the entire attack, the Su-34 is only in danger if the pilot makes a notable mistake or becomes overly confident. The only thing they really need to worry about is the enemy spawning CAP whch costs 700+ SP”
11 Likes
So to sum up CAS are OP , SPAA suck. The only nation with good enough SPAA now have the strongest CAS in the game. I don’t know why you guys keep arguing about it when we all agree on one thing , that every nation need better SPAA and CAS should get nerfed across the board.
9 Likes
The issue is while Pantsir is the “best” it’s the best of SPAA that’s incapable of fragging CAS.
And many wanting Pantsir equivalent SPAA are CAS mains wanting to remain unkillable, cause the real solution is SPYDER equivalent SPAA.
War Thunder has needed 20 - 25km since January 2023.
I don’t know if CAS should be nerfed, but the time of ARH-based SPAAs has arrived, and said arrival is necessary for most if not all countries.
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ARH SPAA is likely too powerful, however War Thunder does need Python-5 based SPYDER at minimum as well as other 20 - 25km based SPAA solutions.
If and when we see the results of Gaijin fixing 20km limit on CAS, we can see if more is needed.
Agreed. But I think we can all agree that KH-38s should have been added with or after those new SPAA were added (and in fairness, probably other weapon systems like the PGM-2000 and later AGM-65 variants)
Instead as you said, we’ve needed new top tier SPAA for at least 2 years now and the fact we’ve gotten nothing is deeply concerning, especially for the 7 nations with very weak top tier SAMs and the 2 with absolutely none.
5 Likes