can confirm
5 Likes
I was really happy to load in and see better French colours. I was promptly disappointed by the realisation that it was the only thing they bothered with.
I am glad the colours are better, but it was really the least pressing issue.
3 Likes
I just want to compare Leopard 2A4M with Leclerc.
Leopard advantages:
- rojectile is better
- thermal imager is better
- survivability is better
- gun depression is better
- same mediocre armor
- minimal difference in mobility
11.3
Leclerc advantages: - 5s reload
11.7
5 Likes
That’s… uh;
- 8mm more pen is not nearly enough of a difference to make it objectively “better”
- difference between 2nd and 3rd gen thermals in WT is barely noticeable unless you’re playing on 720p or lower resolution (I play at 1440p and If I hadn’t access to WTs thermal datasheet, I wouldn’t be able to tell you that 3rd generation is actually “better” than 2nd generation in WT)
- Leopard 2s survivability (apart from the 2A7V) is pretty much non-existent after they have fixed the “hull spall bug”, especially so in case of tanks with as bad of an armour as CANs
How are the “same mediocare armour” and “minimal difference in mobility” advantages, btw?
I’d also argue a 1s faster reload (lets be honest, in most situations it’s actually 1.4 seconds faster because I doubt anybody in their right mind will ace the CAN) is a much bigger advantage, qualitatively speaking, than a 3rd generation camera or 13mm more penetration, it’s not like KE-W spalls better either, since it weighs 4kg, same as OFL F1.
You could’ve made a much better case for yourself if you had simply stated that Leclerc S1/S1 are as good as 2A4M CAN is in most situations, but are at 11.7 and not 11.3… but I also kinda get why they aren’t 11.3, you can get some filthy downtiers there, and seeing as majority of Leclerc players aren’t lvl 5 to 15, they would stomp (been there, done that - Type 90).
A typical case of BR compression ngl, considering that 2A7V & 2A5 are at the same BR.
7 Likes
Unpopular opinion but Leclerc>Leopard 2A6 at every aspect
1 Like
So, how long gaijin goin to avoid this conversations? Idk but its one of the biggest on the forum i guess
U cannot add armour just because no inf, ok, just give them SPALL LINERS!!!
1 Like
Except Leo2A6 actually has better:
-Protection
-Elevation speed,
-Commander thermals (if you dont count XXI),
-Much better firepower,
-Spall Liners
-Gun depression
Only 3 things Leclerc do better:
-Gunner Thermal Resolution
-First Stage Stowage
-Reload Speed
Leo2A6 is a better package overall.
7 Likes
Leopard 2 is also faster than Leclerc, despite Leclerc being 10 tons lighter (Community Bug Reporting System).
You also forgot to mention that on top of having no spall liners, Leclerc only has 3 crew members, which means any penetration = certain death, even at some stupid angles (since the spalling changes, penetration on the left side of the tank somehow manages to kill the 2 crew members on the right side).
And don’t even get me started on the armor … it’s currently worse than the HSTVL - a light tank. Like, come on Devs. In my opinion, the Leclercs are currently light tanks … that cannot scout.
It would be nice if the Devs could actually take a look at the armor and improve it. It’s really what hurts the Leclercs the most. Even though mobility and a new shell would also be nice … Yeah, it’s a mess.
Besides perhaps Arietes (but Italy now has an amazing Leopard 2), Leclercs are currently and undoubtedly the single worst MBTs at top tier right now.
Anyway, needless to say this is the most ridiculous and unfounded take I have ever seen on the forums.
14 Likes
These mobility issues, plus the proven missing spall liners and UFP being worse than T-64A’s, are absolutely outrageous. How haven’t they fixed any of this yet? In fact, they actively refuse to do so!
3 Likes
Do you have a gofundme?
I won’t accept money.
9 Likes
There are no spall liners:
2 Likes
3 Likes
the worst thing tha i cant penetrate HSTVL in front, cz most of time its just angled like 80 * of armor where not even single nera protection, while leclerc with nera with like 75* in fromt or smth can penetrate everyone and this is 90% dead for lecl
4 Likes
Then just accept our thanks for all your work towards fixing frustrating vehicles to play.
6 Likes
Considering how advanced it was for its time, I doubt the Leclercs are not equipped with spall liners and to be fair, France being so secretive about its armor means there could be spall liners. I guess we will now for sure in about 20-30 years when the archives are declassified …
8 Likes
As I wait for my new source to arrive, I was reviewing the report. As it turns out, there are two variants of the Tropicalise. The original with the S1 armour package, and another with the S2 armour package. Sources indicate these were delivered from 2001 onwards.
Spoiler
The armour can be identified by the module extending beyond the breech. With the S1 package, it doesn’t:
Spoiler
So there’s another possible Leclerc to be added in the future. Anyway, the reason the report has taken so long is because it will address every Leclerc including the prototypes and will guarantee accuracy for French top-tier up until and including the XLR. Here’s an idea I was playing with a while back of what French top-tier could look like if everything was historically accurate:
Spoiler
19 Likes
Why can Germany get a 2001 projectile, but France can’t get a 1996 projectile.
1 Like
OFL 120 F2 would have less penetration than OFL 120 F1 in-game. This is because the Lanz-Odermatt formula is used to calculate APFSDS penetration and for whatever reason the formula concludes that DU performs worse than tungsten at high velocities.
In reality, OFL 120 F2 performs better than OFL 120 F1. This is from Cime Bocuze whom manufactured the penetrators for French APFSDS:
Spoiler
Leclercs should be given SHARD. It really wouldn’t be that game-breaking as most of the weakspots would stay the same but it’d mean:
- More reliable penetration of weakspots due to increased pen especially at range (less likelihood of volumetric absorbing everything)
- Much heavier penetrator = better spalling
- The Abrams’ left turret cheek would become vulnerable IIRC (not like the Abrams can’t already point-and-click the Leclerc though)
On another note, it would be nice if anti-ERA tips were modelled so OFL 120 F1 could defeat Kontakt-5.
15 Likes