Multipathing is completely overblown and improperly modelled. It should absolutely be removed.
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I don’t think that the “iron dome” tactic ingame is as fool proof as this thread seems to imply, as even in 1 v 1 situations you can usually counter it by firing 2 missiles, one vertically and one horizontally, as the tws radar has to lose track of one missile to follow the other.
It seems to me that the real reason people are so annoyed by it is that it further validates the missile spam tactic already taking place in top tier meta (sending multiple missiles at one target hoping one of them gets the kill), which is not going to stop even if air to air missiles are no longer allowed to collide. Regardless I can think of a few solutions to at least mitigate the “iron dome” meta:
- Increase the aircraft performance penalty of carrying overly large amounts of missiles
- Decrease radar signature of the missiles themselves
- Make proxy fuses lag a few fractions of a second, making them ineffective above very high closure rates. If anything, this would be more realistic and you probably deserve the intercept if you manage a direct hit at +mach 6 closure rates.
- Add radar jamming, rocket launched chaff and towed decoys as alternatives to notching and multipathing
Honestly, i think we are long overdue for this last item. Done right, it can make the biggest effect towards negating radar missile spam.
Ok, then what do aircraft with poor rwr or that require short range weapon employment but face long range weapons do?
not with esa radars. they can always update instantly
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I need to sleep for a bit but will digest this later, but looks like pretty solid info. Thanks for filling me in, im assuming this isnt something really able to be bug reported? Obviously a bug report on hard data is gonna do infinitely more then a forums post.
Ive been trying to get something actionable to bug report here for a while to reduce this meta but most data is all from data mines and isnt usable.
You would be surprised. This isnt a dig. Do you play much top tier air sim? Specifically on bluefor teams against Russia?
learn to defend using geometry, exploit positioning, notching, or team tactics.
Multipathing wasn’t even added for airplanes, it was added to provide helicopters a little grace so they wouldn’t get shitblasted in ground battles.
I don’t even hate the iron dome meta all that much, its just that I’ve noticed that people that use iron dome meta will literally just j out over giving you the kill if you manage to defend against them and they’re cooked. had at least 20 people do this. this guy for example jed out over 5 times against me before quitting to deny the kill.
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This is more of a cursory and slightly simplified explanation
Absolutely not bug report ready. But it should provide a solid foundation
the core problem with bug reports is the lack of documentation for individual radars and seekers. The physics don’t need manuals.
We just need good sources. Datamines can be substituted with in-game testing to some extent, but tech docs are the biggest hurdle.
It’s not about updating instantly, it’s about azimuth and elevation coverage area in tws mode. Even if the whole scan area is covered every time, it can still be pretty hard to see two missiles heading in the same direction at different altitudes, because they tend to overlap on the 2d display.
the thing is, you pick up the missiles the moment theyre launched. see the above clip as an example
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This isn’t really an answer. How is a jet that has a poor RWR going to notch effectively? How is an aircraft that only uses sidewinders going to approach a r27er or fox3 capable jet? Even a sparrow?
The jet with the long range missiles controls the engagement entirely and can simply force the defending aircraft to either 1. die or 2. merge in an unfavorable dogfight assuming the defender can even defend against multiple missiles up to this point and survive. It gets even crazier when you say, introduce AIM-9Ms onto the aggressor aircraft because to notch the incoming aircraft you have to be side on fully… the same aspect 9Ms control.
You would be making these jets unplayable rather than bettering the game. You would also dumb down engagements into the same song and dance every engagement with 1 aggressor forcing 1 defender to notch and defend the entire fight up until the merge.
facts, any rwr that’s not at least spo-15 level is just horrendous to play with.
Well, i would not even argue about that. Multipathing does not even work with 60meters trees.
even spo15 is trash for notching because it doesnt give a precise 90 degree angle. It tells you when you’re within like 80-100 degrees at best and you have to approximate the rest
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yeah, but at least with spo-15 its still somewhat doable cause it gives range. rwrs like the one that the viggens get at those brs makes me wanna tear my hair out
I have had some fun tonight. Thanks for y’all :)
If nothing, I believe bringing some attention to the subject will change the game in the direction of skill play.
Goodnight!
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Notching IRL also works a bit differently than warthunder. Its not that it strictly requires a tighter angle, if anything it can be seen as less angle dependent, as notching modern radars doesnt actually involve holding one specific angle.
Due how radars work with alternating PRFs, radars can actually track targets in a perfect notch just fine. Assuming no countermeasures are in play. And potentially even while chaff can be used, modern systems can still have MTI like modes to ignore chaff to an extent. So the best way to effectively and consistently notch IRL is actually to wiggle the plane back and forth across the notch window. The game doesn’t model doppler filter updates realistically enough at the moment for what causes this to work though.
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This is literally the answer. Your options are going to be to hold a notch until merge, coordinate with someone else, or exploit terrain masking (not multipathing) or baiting shots to drain missiles.
Just because you want to fly a fox-2 only plane doesn’t excuse fictional physics behaviors.
You can argue about balance using the BR system, which is why it exists.
Correct. That is the point. That’s why BVR missiles were created. That’s why range matters more than maneuverability. This is why Fox-2s are not primary weapons but self-defence backups, your first option when engaged is to RTB, you only use fox-2 if you are either caught in the NEZ or if you are already saddled on.
BR system exists for balancing. Argue that angle instead.
Yes and? This is exactly how every engagement works. You push the enemy defensive and then kill him from an offensive position. What’s new?