I have been more and more frustrated with higher BR sim gameplay, the coined meta “iron dome” has really solidified a key turning point for this game mode. We have been limping along for a long while but I really think this is gonna be one of the tipping points for the game mode and we need to do our best to get something changed.
The iron dome meta has not only removed any skill based gameplay but actively punishes players for using any kind of defensive tactics. Simply shoot the enemies missiles down and ensure you’re in a plane that carrier the same amount or more missiles then your opponent. This absolutely is not a healthy game mechanic for any competitive, isolated fight style game and even showed up in Esports tournaments testing new lineup to include the 15GE, 18E and J10C. Who would have guessed, the 15GE and 18E were removed shortly after due to this exact meta ruining the fights.
This doesn’t really show up or is an issue on RB which makes sense since you gain no advantage unless its down to the last few players and the fights are isolated. So without the support of the much much larger RB community i really have my doubts we will see any change…
Realistic or not, I think most people who play top tier sim or top tier air in general can agree this is a horrible direction to take the game. Gameplay > realism (no one seems certain if this is even a realistic feature).
We can ignore this and just continue to play sub top tier brackets but it %100 is trickling down. People take planes like the SU34 with its PESA at 13.3 or C10 at 13.0 and do the same thing. And even with the mech scan planes like 15C or really anything that isn’t N001 can still partake in the meta just with less success.
We need some sort of change for air, this has got to change. If it becomes such an issue people just stop playing top tier then whats the point of grinding anymore? why even bother with the new J15T if my missiles will just get shot down?
Edit: added poll
Do you think this mechanic should be removed from air?
36 Likes
Why bother grinding air tree with base bombing to then move to ground battles and shit on the tankers?
I mean no disrespect but seeing the plane guys complain that they cant easilly make shit ton of kills with their OP armanment is just unbearable anymore
1 Like
Fellow Air Simulator Batlles player here, I totally agree.
As someone who absolutely loves the F-16’s the limited count of missiles makes every single one very valuable compared to other planes.
And as the meta is now, the F-16C is facing Su-30’s, Su-34’s and many more planes with the ability to carry over 8 ARH missiles. In a 1v1 you will have all 6 of your missiles shot down, while the other player will still have at least 2 missiles to launch at you.
This is just plain awful to play and I’m especially worried for the higher tier F-16’s, like the F-16C Blk.52 PoMid which will face planes like the Su-30SM2, with extremely high missile counts and a radar that rivals an AWACS by Warthunder standards.
And I do think adding radar filters for things like Helicopters, etc. is a really great idea, but I also fear that the filter for ordnance will elevate this problem even more.
20 Likes
What even is your point buddy, this isn’t a tanker being blown up with no counterplay…
Every plane at top tier gets this “OP armament”, it’s only a matter of skill about who will win a 1vs1, well that was the case until even the worst players can just shoot down everything you throw at them, instead of maneuvering and actually defending.
11 Likes
how did you even come to this conclusion based on the post about shooting missiles down?
what might be the OP armament in question, fox 3’s?
7 Likes
As a tank guy, “shooting missle down” is what im told to do when the F16 spams 6 of AGM65s or Su-33 spams 6 Kh38s, and they call it balance
this is a post specifically going over the air mode, not ground. We arent asking for SAM radar mechanics to change, only planes.
21 Likes
Ah so it was a misunderstanding.
We are all talking about Air Sim only. Not in any correlation with Ground Battles
Ah then i must apologize. I saw people shooting down some rockets in air realistic, but i never thought its a proper tactic
5 Likes
no worries lol. i wouldn’t want to see something change for ground anyways. i don’t play it nearly enough to suggest any kind of changes there.
how would this feature be removed from air, because as long as a plane can lock onto a missile (even with acm) this feature will still be there.
Not to mention gaijin is leaning towards this being permanent with the addition of missile icons on the radar next major
Removed not really, but missile RCS should be decreased to the point where it’s functionally removed for all missiles but a phoenix.
19 Likes
I think this would be a great solution. Reducing RCS for missiles by a lot would make ARH tracks way more inconsistent and thus less of a “counterspell” and more of a hail mary if you are not able to notch them (which I feel is maybe not great still, but reasonable considering the current state of the meta)
3 Likes
I don’t really know personally.
My first guess would be radars between ground and air have varying lock strengths and search capabilities. Reducing whatever slider they have on entities that allow them to be tracked to the point of no longer being track-able from a planes radar.
RCS seems to be a hot topic when discussing this meta. I don’t know how its implemented in game but i know it is from game files. Hopefully when stealth is worked on more, maybe a byproduct will be reducing missiles RCS sizes to where plane radars can no longer pick them up.
sadly you bring up a good point… and this is one of the main reasons i dont think anything will change. but we can try atleast.
2 Likes
This won’t stop the most modern ESA radars from tracking. What really is horribly inaccurate alongside the ridiculously large RCS, is the 100% interception rate of Fox-3 against other Fox-3.
I think proxy fuse just shouldn’t trigger against a small target, and it shouldn’t be able to properly track a target going mach 4+, especially if multiple are close together.
Just look at this. The Su-30SM2 intercepted 8/8 of the eurofighter AIM-120, when they all were fired at a quick succession. Fox-3 simply are unable to do this irl.
13 Likes
Yep the problem isnt the fact that u can detect and track them, thats why air defense systems can intercept anything in the first place, its feasible and realistic in that way with modern radars - it’s the success rate that is the problem. It shouldn’t be anywhere near as reliable as it is now, even purpose built point defense systems dont have as high success rate as what we have with fox3’s, hell even the ground AA in game is less effective at intercepting supersonic atgm’s compared to aircraft and those arent nearly as fast as air to air missiles getting iron domed. They probs just need to tune their intercept logic to be less reliable against very fast stuff so effectiveness goes from like 95% way down to something significantly less dependable somewhere below 50% at least.
17 Likes
That isn’t exactly like that, ATGMs, bombs etc all have relatively huge RCS meanwhile something like AMRAAM has maximum 0.178^2/4*Pi=0,0249m^2 front aspect in case if every single wave was reflected perfectly back to emitter (which isn’t the case irl so practical RCS is even lower) so the detection range of a radar that can detect a 3m^2 target from 100km (current WT cap) such radar will detect that missile from max 100/((3/0.0249)^(1/4))=30.1km meanwhile in WT radars can easily pick up such missiles from up to max range which is 100km. This also reflects to ARH lock range like instead of 16km it should lock it from only max 4.8km so sum it with IOG drift, very high closer speed and you’ll get the situation where even if the missile will actually be able to lock another missile it simply won’t be able to turn in in time.
Also there’s a pretty high chance that ARH missiles radars simply filter out (or physically can’t detect ) anything flying that fast
9 Likes
Its not realistic, it’s not engaging, it’s not even fun
Get rid of it in Air Sim.
11 Likes
i will be the devils lawyer and ask why not? me personaly i hate it when my ET says oo a missile lets go after that and i dont hit the target or my r73 in a headon its going for the enemy missile and not the plane the same happens to the enemys as well, the main problem is when people J out before i get the kill then i launch 10 missiles so he wont get the kill if i wont
1 Like
