The Gepard-style AAA games are absolutely ridiculous and broken for the BR 8+

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Aegis270

Harsh nerf on 35mm APHE’s explosive filler.

This isn’t possible as this is War Thunder and not World of Tanks, meaning there actually has to be an irl difference for a change like this to be made. What they CAN do is uhh, entirely ignore that dumb poll they did earlier where the community shot themselves in the foot and voted no to nerfing aphe. A global aphe nerf would just do a lot of good for the game including fixing the crazy damage 35mm spaa get

@Aegis270

Rounds that richocet 3 times are currently set to just ignore armor, allowing them to phase into tanks. Instead, make them disappear, at least for 35mm and below. This would resolve a decent number of the Matrix’ing of rounds I mentioned earlier.

I don’t get why they don’t just disappear for all tanks, as this just ultimately leads to super glitchy situations anyway, but yeah at least do it for 40mm and under

I agree with everything else fully

[Aegis270]

@Normandy Corsair

This isn’t possible as this is War Thunder and not World of Tanks, meaning there actually has to be an irl difference for a change like this to be made.

Selective realism is completely on the table. For a recent example, the X-4 missile they added to the WW2 German tech tree is using a primitive auditory proxy fuze that, IRL, was only set up to function against B-17s (It used the known frequency of the B-17’s engine and the Doppler effect to know when it was close and detonate).

Gaijin, probably rightly, decided that having a missile be hard limited to a single bomber type in game would render the missile pointless, and gave it a generic proxy fuze instead.

War Thunder has plenty more incidences of selective realism, where an ahistorical implementation is used because it’s better for gameplay.

This seems like a fine example of where it could be used.

Sidenote, but changing the spall pattern of APHE to be more realistic probably wouldn’t affect 35mm APHE all that much. Each round would do less, but since you’re still firing at a crazy high RoF enough fragments will make it to the crew to kill/disable the tank. Especially due to the very high explosive content of the rounds.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Aegis270

Sidenote, but changing the spall pattern of APHE to be more realistic probably wouldn’t affect 35mm APHE all that much.

It would do a ton… if made realistic APHE only creates more spall in the exact same cone shape that spall created from the initial penetration was already going. It isn’t a spherical grenade like it works in WT. Meaning all those goofy cupola snipe spots that every spaa abuses to get kills will turn into pretty pointless shots that might kill a commander and thats it. It would work the same way shooting a Tiger 1 cupola with solid shot would work

[AspectOfTheRAGE]

@Normandy Corsair

A global aphe nerf would just do a lot of good for the game including fixing the crazy damage 35mm spaa get

SPAA’s with high RoF cannons would not care about such changes whatsoever. Most fragmentation would still go to the sides, direct front and rear. The corner areas would have less, but not 0, in any case, sufficient to nuke the entire crew as currently, especially when you just send 7rds of APHEI-T/gun/sec anyway.

Its literally just gonna make anything low RoF that relies on current APHE implementation to be viable less consistent.

But I will refrain from repeating myself too much:

The Gepard-style AAA games are absolutely ridiculous and broken for the BR 8+

Ah yes, the classic reddit take of “aphe rework would have fixed it” Lets visualise that: [DELULU_Warriors] The issue is not APHE fragmentation distribution but awful damage models that allow nonsense penetrations to happen in the first place. If I can shoot a Abrams ufp (post dm rework), bounce into the mantlet, fuze outside of the tank and still kill half the crew because the shell spalls into the fighting compartment anyway, then thats not really a issue caused by APHE, is it? Same as A…

Also lets not act like 35mm APHEI-T wouldnt just completely obliterate anything inside a enclosed space when fuzing irl;

(Pictures below are from an older shell, PSBH/H, with worse design and fragmentation behaviour than PLD-044 shown above)

50mm RHA;

[Aegis270]

To add on to RAGE’s point, I think the APHE nerf is also the wrong approach to take.

Let me first clarify that I did still want it tested before being rejected.

However, my central thesis is this. I have never met a single person who’s played with APHE, then played with solid shot only, and said “Wow, AP is so much more fun. I wish all rounds did this much damage”.

APHE may be unrealistic, but having high damage rounds is just fun. It’s fun to be able to click on tanks and watch them explode, not have to queue up a follow up shot because my solid shot round missed the ammo by fractions of an inch, and therefore only disabled the enemy (Let alone doing no damage whatsoever).

And I’d argue it’s fun in both directions too. Leaving aside the getting nuked in half a second by full auto APHE (Which I’m trying to address), it’s far more fun to take one hit and be sent to the respawn scene, than to be forced to wait, completely disabled and helpless, as your opponent readies another shot (Or multiple, if he’s unskilled/unlucky).

It also helps balance via allowing weakspot targetting to keep certain tanks in check. Take for example the T95. Many have used this as an example of a tank that’s victimised by APHE. I disagree. It’s a tank that’s actually allowed to be useful entirely because APHE cupola shots exist to keep it in balance.

If players with APHE couldn’t engage it frontally at all, then it would get a massive buff, and be forced to move up in BR… to a BR where almost everything fired at it can lolpen it. It would suffer from IS-3 syndrome, a tank that’s terrible where it is, but can’t be any lower without risking the complete annihilation of the APHE centric tanks below it.

The change that should have happened is a buff to solid shot/low caliber APCR/APDS/HEATFS to make their damage more similar to APHE. Some additional, angular spall created around the breach to help ensure near hits still do decent damage, and to help prevent the awful feeling of a center mass round doing no useful damage. And add some fragment ricochets for full caliber AP so that engaging tanks that have to be penetrated in weakpoints is a less obnoxious endeavour.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@AspectOfTheRAGE

SPAA’s with high RoF cannons would not care about such changes whatsoever. Most fragmentation would still go to the sides, direct front and rear. The corner areas would have less, but not 0, in any case, sufficient to nuke the entire crew as currently, especially when you just send 7rds of APHEI-T/gun/sec anyway.

ok

@Normandy Corsair

It would do a ton… if made realistic APHE only creates more spall in the exact same cone shape that spall created from the initial penetration was already going. It isn’t a spherical grenade like it works in WT. Meaning all those goofy cupola snipe spots that every spaa abuses to get kills will turn into pretty pointless shots that might kill a commander and thats it. It would work the same way shooting a Tiger 1 cupola with solid shot would work

[AspectOfTheRAGE]

I suggest you take a look at footage from the aphe-rework tests (dance of dragons dev server) before claiming it’d make cupola shots do as much with APHE as regular AP, since thats simply not the case.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Aegis270

Fix the XM246’s nonsense damage model by making all plates and components produce spall when hit. The 246 has a ton of internal thin armor plates which block spall while not being thick enough to produce any when penetrated. This, along with the large FCS block in the middle, and the odd placement of the ammo in the far sides of the turret, mean that a lot of pentrating hits will end up achieving little to nothing.

The XM246 in particular has terrible survivability. Its turret is filled with components that will instantly disable firing or turning the turret when hit, and it has ammo belts going all along the sides of the turret. Unlike the Gepard, it can’t rely on speed as armor either.

It’s by far the second least problematic of the Gepards, second only to the Chieftan marksman.

[RDXRooster63]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Herojure24]

@Pangolin_Fan

The XM246 in particular has terrible survivability. Its turret is filled with components that will instantly disable firing or turning the turret when hit, and it has ammo belts going all along the sides of the turret. Unlike the Gepard, it can’t rely on speed as armor either.

Sure. But those modules eat the entire shell and all the spall so a hit to the turret disables it or does nothing. Unlike other 35mm spaa which often die when hit in the turret.

[Herojure24]

@Leo2A6EX-live

I barely play anti airs

It shows.

@Leo2A6EX-live

That’s the simple answer but the amx 10p is incredibly good compared to other anti airs of similar brs again maybe you just don’t know how to aim it. And that’s fine.

It is in fact not. It has poor traverse angles as well as poor traverse speed in terms of SPAA. It is beat in pretty much every metric when it comes to killing planes by the 5.7 TPK. Except that thing is a truck and it dies tp a gust of wind so it’s not the most effective SPAA when going up in BR.

[_Renzo]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@RDXRooster63

Please give me whatever fucking drugs your on. The XM246 is the second most problematic, only beat out by the Leopard Marksman

Just because you’re biased against America doesn’t mean everything American is OP.

@Herojure24

Sure. But those modules eat the entire shell and all the spall so a hit to the turret disables it or does nothing. Unlike other 35mm spaa which often die when hit in the turret.

The Gepards and Marksmans will commonly just ignore sabots. They do die easy enough most of the time, however the XM246 is near impossible to hit without destroying something.

[ULQ_LOVER]

You don’t have to:


It is clear as day what is better.

[BlokPlaysGames]

@Normandy Corsair

They ARE better than MBTs at this BR. You are quite literally fully capable of having better games driving around a Gepard than a Leopard.

That’s a german main thing, I have better games in a locust than plenty of Leo players

[BlokPlaysGames]

My personal most to least pain in the ass 35mm ranking

ItPSV Leopard 2 Marksman
XM246
ZA-35
Gepard/1A2
PGZ-88 ( no gun dep puts it below geps)
Chieftan Marksman

[RDXRooster63]

tbh i agree

[Normandy_Corsair]

@BlokPlaysGames

That’s a german main thing, I have better games in a locust than plenty of Leo players

No it applies to all mbts and any gepard style spaa

[Kievskiy_Minipig]

Just remove aphe and leave 40 apds. Sidam with full he + some apds isnt roaming as freely and as often as gepards, marksmans and other oerlikon garbage.

[Pvt_Wade]

i wish my xm246 was really that hard to kill