So make it insanely overpowered again where it has literal all aspects at 9.3? It’s insanely overpowered as is and you literally want to just give it new life as another overpowered vehicle.
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All aspect red tops won’t be that good. They would be slightly better than R-3Rs, but on a worse and gunless airframe than the Mig-21s.
As it stands, the Sea Vixen should be 9.0 in sim and air RB, but I can see it going higher if it gains all aspect capability.
I’m sure the 8.3-9.3 flareless planes would agree…
No stronger than the SARH Aim-4s or R-3Rs on supersonic aircraft at the same or similar BR.
Red Tops can be defeated by turning slightly.
9.3 on a subsonic, with no guns, and weak rear-aspect IR missiles would kill it. It would be unplayable, the only thing you could fight is Zombers. Bare in mind at 9.3 you have things like the French Hunter F6, Yak-38, etc. Including several with CMs as well like the Alpha jet. And your only advantage, which is flatline speed, gets deleted because everything is easily able to match your speed
99% of the aircraft you would face, could simply ignore your existance because you could never do anything about them except in rear-aspect if they didnt see you coming.
then I guess we need to delete Aim-4 and R-3Rs then. As there are chaffless aircraft at the same BRs
Are R-3Rs some OP missile? All aspect red tops would be slightly better than them.
Those are also the strongest missiles overall at the BR, so you’re trying to say “it’s only gonna be as good as the best missiles and also not care about low altitude/ground clutter!”
Even with that said, the R-3R starts at 10.0, not 9.3, so you won’t ever see the R-3R in sim unless you uptier yourself.
Exaggerating, by a lot. Even in RB the red top can still turn well enough to get you if you weren’t defending early and being proactive in your slow a** korean jet. In sim its an entirely different game.
You literally said all aspect red tops. It would not have rear aspect IR.
Preferable to it dominating its bracket like it does now if you ask me, but regardless…
The jet should just be 9.0 and retain its current preformance.
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You need to be aware of the fact that you had a missile launched at you.
You cannot see your low six. Most planes aren’t a threat from low six/guns take long enough that you will eventually notice them while slaloming around. A missile will reach you far before you’re even aware there’s a missile plane nearby.
Even the german Sea Hawk is bloody annoying the few times I fly out my jets.
I’d very much prefer that WW2 jets and early late 40s/even korean war jets didnt see guided missiles. Might be able to enjoy the bracket as a gunfighter era as it’s meant to be without worrying about randomly getting deleted by a missile while flying high.
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no proxy fuse
I wonder if there are tactics to avoid the dog**** radars the R-3Rs are being guided by? Keeping in mind, the R-3R appears at TEN POINT O
Also, I know you really aren’t dumb enough to sincerely try to use the F-106 that you yourself claim is undertiered to try to justify another undertiered plane.
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Except for the fact its a slower aircraft, that turns worse and doesnt have a gun.
Then Aim-7C on the 9.3 F3H-2 then.
Which btw, is faster than the Sea Vixen whislt also having guns.
The only people I target, are those that are energy trapped, otherwise they will miss. They are incredibly easy to defeat.
Exactly. If it had rear-aspect at 9.3, you might as well just delete the aircraft because there would be 0 point to ever play it. 9.0 is too high in RB as it is, as all you face in uptiers is things like the Harriers and Hunters with flares.
Except… It doesnt. I played a few matches during the event. I was on the ONLY sea Vixen in any of the matches. Hardly anyone plays it, and I rarely got shot oppotunities to actually fire a red top. You cant dogfigth, so you spend your time just looking for other dogfights going on to third party a kill.
Actually a really dull aircraft to play because you basically spend the entire match AFK.
Id not touch it. Or if it does, a LOT of aircraft need to go up to 9.3 then.
Yeah, but id argue that if the aircrafts ONLY play is sneak up behind someone unawares, it doesnt make it a good jet. Because the moment you are spotted, you cant do anything about it in the Sea Vixen and you arent exactly a small airframe.
This idea that being able to play like a rat = a good aircraft is wierd to me. To me that screams a weak aircraft, not an OP aircraft.
Using the same logic, the Tornados should be 13.0 because I sneak up behind people and shoot them down with Aim-9Ls. It just doesnt make any sense
Then F3H-2 which is the same BR as the Sea Vixen in RB already.
It has 4x Guns + 4x Missiles including the all-aspect Aim-7C. Whilst also being faster than the Sea Vixen, having a higher climb rate and nearly the same turn performance.
In SB, its at 9.3, so if the Sea Vixen was 9.3… It would not even be close
Still “All-asepct” which is apparently super OP on a British jet below 10.7.
no proxy fuse is a huge disadvantage to the red top and your just skimming over it. not to mention you cant MP or just go lower than the firing jet (old radar) against IR missiles
yeah it’s also, even in your proposed 9.3 BR, again, probably the fifth time I’m saying this, 0.7 br below the MiGs that carry the R-3R you are referencing.
Yeah I’m SUPER SURE the AIM-7C is as good as the fixed all aspect red top… yep!
Sounds like a you issue more than a missile issue. Positioning and timing are probably not up to par
Nobody is advocating for this
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And the Aim-4s pull double the G. Again, for the purpose of this conversation. The idea that Red Tops being all-aspect owuld be game breaking, when R-3Rs, Aim-7Cs and Aim-4s all exist is just baffling to me.
And the idea that a Aim-9E downgrade and no gun is suffecient at 9.0/9.3 is just insane.
Just letting people here know, the red tops are 1km all aspect against F104s going super sonic and in after burner. They are basically rear aspect only unless against yack 38s, harriers or F-106s.
And lll say it again, you can role them just as easy as you would roll a 9b. If your slow you would have died to a 9b/e just as easy as you would have from a red top.
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Multiple people are. Have you not read htis thread. I’ve seen dozens of people argue it should be 9.3 in both RB and SB because “its fast” even though its not faster than a lot of 8.7s.
And so if any aircraft has a slightly higher K/D it needs to have its BR increased by 0.7?
Then the Mig-23MLD should be 12.0
Shenyang F-5 should be 10.0
French F-.86K should be 10,0.
etc etc.
They all have way higher K/Ds than the average for the BRs
Yeah, exactly, but for some reaosn people are operating like Red Tops are Aim-9Gs
I read the thread, most replies seem to indicate what I also believe, that it should be 9.0 or 8.7 minimum