I agree—the ideal compromise for the Kfir Canard is BR 10.7, which is the BR for the F-5C or even the better NF-5A, with similar equipment and no radar.
BR 11.0 is already a penalty for the Canard, and at BR 11.3 it will reach EOL status.
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The only thing that would hold this back as being the undisputed best 10.7 fighter in the game once the obvious outlier, undertiered vehicles such as the J7D or NF-5A go up to 11.0 or 11.3 where they belong, will be the 2 count missile limitation. Otherwise, you have a better FM than everybody else, and you have flares. Not exactly balanced just because you get two missiles, but whatever
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Those who say that it should be in 11.3 don’t really know how difficult it is to try to play with it, in this case you find many Mig 25s and their radar missiles that are impossible to dodge and even less so if you don’t know when they are launched at you. that the kfir canard alert is of no use.
They should add at least some python 3, or download it from BR if they really want it to be useful, because in their BR it is useless
Since the Kfir Canard with two AIM-9Gs has to have a BR of 11.3 for some reason, they should at least give it the missing countermeasure pods on the central fuel tank.
The current 36CM small-caliber rounds are insufficient for such a high-performance engine with a BR of 11.3, which forces it to engage in combat with aircraft in the BR 12.0–12.3 range.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/G67Lyx4aLEbc
Just notch? Or go beneath them? You shouldn’t be climbing in Kfir
So, a much higher BR then?
It already has a BR as if it had 4x all-spect IR missiles…
These are the fighters at BR 11.3:
https://wiki.warthunder.com/unit/f-5e_fcu_thailand
https://wiki.warthunder.com/unit/saab_ja37
https://wiki.warthunder.com/unit/j_8b
https://wiki.warthunder.com/unit/j_7e
https://wiki.warthunder.com/unit/f-4e
etc.
The Kfir Canard, just like the F-104G/S, has fallen victim to players who—despite the aircraft’s poor equipment—make up for it by earning XP and credits through base destruction. Their K/D ratios are poor, but thanks to the bases, Gaijin deliberately clips their wings so they don’t do too well.
The solution? Take away their bombs—these are fighters, after all—since Gaijin is so bothered by players earning XP and credits…
OR, introduce a flexible BR: with bombs—BR 11.3; without bombs—10.7.
A Kfir Canard with two Python 3s would be suitable for BR 11.0, with four for BR 11.3, and even then it wouldn’t be anything spectacular due to the small number of small-caliber flares and the lack of a “J” band in the RWR or radar.
The Kfir Canard in its current form, just like the F-104S/TAF, is a BR 10.7 fighter, EOT.
Now consider the flight model, only J-7E is comparable on that list
No, that’s ridiculous. You’re just removing player choice and dumbing down the sandbox instead of fixing the gamemode OR realizing (as gaijin) that silver lion income doesnt actually mean anything in the scheme of balancing the game
Go find the lowest jet with Python 3s and get back to me, then consider it’s an F-5 at 11.3, and it gets TWO. Then go find the NEXT highest jet with them.
You just gave yourself away—you’ve never flown this plane, yet you have something to say about it. I don’t know why…
Does the Canard have better flight characteristics than the F-5? OK, BRO.
I can just picture you using your flight model to take on all the advanced SARH and advanced IR systems you encounter—especially with a measly 36 small-caliber countermeasures at your disposal. It’s a blast fighting against aircraft in the BR 12.0–12.3 range :)
The Kfir Canard is still just a Mirage III, only with a more powerful engine.
That’s why I suggested the second option? A variable BR—this solution is better than equipping the aircraft with just two AIM-9Gs, a OK flight model (nothing more), 36 small-caliber flares (very hot engine from the F-104/Phantom), no “J” band in the RWR, no radar, no EEGS, and none of the features characteristic of BR 11.3… Speed alone isn’t everything; you also need the means to combat other advanced aircraft equipped with SARH or all-aspect IR missiles or even IRCCM Missiles.
Python 3 is nothing special—just a slightly better AIM-9L that tends to lock onto just about any flare. You’re talking about it as if it were an AAM-3, but it’s still a non-IRCCM missile in the AIM-9L class.
Besides, as I mentioned earlier, you’ve never played ANY Kfir, yet you’re trying to act like an expert here.
Kfir C.2 on 11.7BR
It is quite a massive gap from AIM-9G to Python 3.
But they only have a 0.4 BR gap between Kfir Canard and C.2
While BR Difference between Harrier GR.3(AIM-9G, 9.7) or AV-8S(AIM-9J, 9.7) to Sea Harrier FRS.1 Early (AIM-9L, 10.7) are 1.0BR gap
If we completely ignore the BR compression and counterparts.
Kfir Canard itself would somehow be fitting 11.3 BR by itself.
Mirage 5 fuselage, hyped engine, and AIM-9G missiles.
But with combining with compression, and some hilarious counterpart which didn’t get nerfed during recent 'fake decompression’ (Things like J-7D, when both now can bomb base, yet evaded BR nerf unlike A-5C did)
Kfir Canard might be fitting more to ‘strong 11.0’ than ‘weak 11.3’
If there was no compression, and every plane was in the ideal place, for argument’s sake
it might be fitting perfectly on 11.3BR
But current nerfing is more affected by the ‘illogical Gaijin way of punishing base bombers when base bombing literally cannot affect winning a match in the current flawed way of gameplaying’.
I understand why some people are talking about decompression, and disagreeing with buffing Kfir Canard.
But honestly, keeping Kfir Canard on 11.3BR sounds like
‘intentionally keeping Vampire FB.5 on 8.0BR in the name of decompression when F2H and F-86A-5 laugh at them’
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Quite accurate observations.
I’ll just add that the Kfir C.2 already has a functional RWR that allows us to climb to a higher altitude and engage the enemy from above, whereas the Canrad—without the “J” band—often ends up as prey for the MiG-23, MiG-25, etc.
What’s more, the C.2 also has large canards (additional small wings at the engine air intakes), whereas the Canrad itself has very small ones; I assume the C.2 might also have better flight model/energy retention because of this (I don’t know—I haven’t flown any other Kfir besides the Canard).
I actually like my Kfir Canard, but when I play with it, I see it as a fighter in the BR 10.7 range; at BR 11.3, it feels like I’m playing in a squad with another player who accidentally chose a higher BR :)
because I’m still aware of FMs? I have 90% of the planes in the entire game tech tree wise. That 10% is very easy to figure out from that
Yes?
Literally none of the SARH are scary because you can multipath all of them easily but even if you had to notch they’re all easy to visual notch too
Which fixes the Mirage 3’s only, singular downside. The “more powerful engine” here is also being undersold. The jet has extremely high t/w.
It’s only the best non-irccm missile in game basically, being far better than even the AIM-9L. Surely this is ok at 11.0!
2 python 3s would be fair at 11.3, because 11.0 is a bit low considering the BRs of the other Kfirs (which are also a bit overtiered), and things like the Thai F-5s.
It’s certainly not significantly worse.
You can abuse everything a delta wing with great turning like the kfir has along with having a saturn rocket engine for thrust… its obviously better. Don’t ratefight a F-5 and what is he going to do
So what’s the point of this thread, then? To shift the Kfir Canard to 12.0 because of multipathing and the notch—but if that’s the case, why were the SU-30 Premium models shifted to 13.7 when you can use multipathing/notch against their ARH?
The problem is that you’re not always in a position to evade an enemy SARH; this is simply a matter of balance. A decent FM or the ability to destroy a single base won’t solve all of the fighter’s problems. The Kfir Canard is a decent BR 10.7 fighter, average at BR 11.0, and underrated at BR 11.3.
I’ve been playing around with Python 3s on the F-16A (Netz) a lot lately, they’re effective as long as the opponent doesn’t know we’ve fired them at him; the Python 3 only becomes immune to flares from the rear hemisphere, at a distance of ~1 km or less, AND the opponent must have full afterburner engaged—and ideally, he shouldn’t have any large-caliber flares either.
The Kfir Canard often wouldn’t be able to create such a situation because it has to stay close to the ground to avoid enemy SARH missiles, and it can’t hunt from above while concealed either, or it’ll run into R-24R, R-40RD, R-23R, etc.; the lack of a “J” band in its RWR is a major weakness for this aircraft, while the Kfir C.2 has a huge advantage in this regard.
In short, I haven’t flown the Kfire C.2, but it’s quite similar to the Canard. HOWEVER, having a “J” band in the RWR and two all-aspect IR missiles means it would be a competitive BR 11.3 fighter (it’s 11.7), just as the Canard is best suited for BR 10.7 (or, at a pinch, 11.0 after adding the missing AN/ALE-40s).
But thats just it, the missile has very good parameters on when you can fire and how long it takes to impact that its pretty stealthy and high agility
Best you are going to get is a head on vs a good f5 player
F5 dogs all over kfir and mig21. I used to think the same and thought it was skill issue - but i asked number 1 duelist of all people and he confirmed
Kfir is 10.7 worthy but is made to fight f18s and f16s just because it bombs bases. Sad game we play
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it goes both ways but kfir can leave anytime and can also still force a 1 circle if the f5 player takes a bad line early
Money to fund the small indie studio, Gajin.