Team mates making the game impossible to win

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81

This was never my intention - you can google things like “why the majority is always wrong” for good reasons - trying to take a step back and to have different views on things was never suited to gain appreciation.

I see the same in my mode, but this is a rather hot topic as nobody knows for sure what is actually considered by the MM. Even if you admit that the human brain tends to recognize patterns in pure chaos - circumstantial evidence with a confidence level way higher than wild guesses exist. Just check this post and this one - imho whole thread is rather interesting regarding win/defeat streaks and team composition.

I mean any experienced long term player is at some point able to predict the outcome of 90% of his matches just by looking at the vehicles of your team and a quick check of the stat cards of the enemy team - i use my tinfoil hat only to predict visits of my mother-in-law - with rather poor results.

Regarding your bouncing shots and deviations of in game perception and server replay - from my pov a lot related to sync issues.

I mean i fly just a handful of non-meta WW2 era props, but those planes several thousand times. So even if you are not the smartest guy, after a few hundred matches in a plane you know exactly where your bullets are going - and if enemy projectiles are able to hit you.

So from time to time i miss the easiest shots you can imagine - and you get killed by shells that clearly passed your plane - and by watching the replays i see that my shots went 2-3 meters below or above a target and the enemy shells were right on target…

Fully agree, my reminder was just aimed at a specific person…

Have a good one!

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82

Well, but that’s not what I’m really talking about here. Not that the server replay has is different than what you capture. I’m talking about your local client saved replay is doctored after the match for some reason or not storing only your local things. I know that the server replay may see things completely differently, that’s crystal clear to me as I’m a developer working on online multiplayer games myself.

Here’s a proof of client footage being different than stored replay, and I’m not talking about shot deviation, but whole “phantom” vehicle disappearing in the replay: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/13q2iwz/local_replays_are_not_showing_what_you_actually/
I only captured it this time because I had the situation previously, and I wasn’t the only one seeing the phantom vehicle back then, my team also saw a phantom vehicle like this in one of the previous matches where I didn’t capture live footage. I also had discrepancies with local replay in the case of high-calibre aircraft guns, where I flew so close to the bomber trying to shoot it down with my P63A-5 while constantly missing it that I broke my propeller, while in the local replay it looks like I just missed all the shots by being too far and decided to crash down into the ground “just because”.

So first of all, the game is not really having the “server is the king” kind of network architecture as most modern multiplayer games, but even calling it hybrid-server-client architecture like iirc they are calling it, is a big stretch. From what I could see over the years the game is running peer-2-peer with dedicated server just collecting the simulation outcomes from both sides and deciding who’s right, and potentially doctoring the outcome.

Few years back I had one match in which something happened for like a minute, when everyone could move around and shoot, but no damage worked, chat didn’t work and noone scored anything, but we still could move around and shoot each other without any damage, until like 30 seconds before the match ended where it started working again. It pointed me towards figuring out how the network architecture may actually look like.

Getting back to discrepancies between server and client and other players - I’ve had few times a bombing run when my squad mate had cleared the interceptors off my tail to tell me I’m clear to bomb, while I was already shot down and crashing into the ground only to see my plane flying straight over the battlefield when I got back to my tank.

Because of the architecture like this, it’s good for people with bad network connection, and I actually have one squadron mate that says that war thunder is the only game that works smoothly on his radio connection, but it has consequences. For example you sometimes have this situation where you’re randomly stuck and don’t know why you can’t shoot or move already only to see the damage show up after a second or so when you actually get shot. Or you have situations where you peek out, shoot and come back to the cover, and when you’re already in the cover you’re scratched on the side and see a killcam with your whole tank being wide in the open. IMO this happens because on the other side the player has such high latency, his client requests the result of his shot so early that he’ll get it as soon as possible. While such architecture allows players on poor connection play smoothly, it’s still something that lets the game make it so that both sides loose when they need to for the sake of optimising retention by throttling the tasks.

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83

No, it isn’t.

If that statement held any water at all, if I had a 1 to 1 kill to death ratio I should win around 50% of the time as I kill exactly as much as I am killed.

But that isn’t true at all.

I have a 2.1 to 1 kill ratio in Realistic Battles which is all I have played for a long time now. I lose more than I win.

So killing twice as many people as kill me results in losing most of the time. That, in and of itself, shouldn’t be possible. But in this game, it is.

In fact, it’s status quo.

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84

Yeah, nothing personal, just an observation of mine. I just see it so many times in the general chat in game, players with a good kill count ranting that “their” team lost the game for them. It just seems like an odd pov to me most of the time. And yeah, I too know about teams that are less then “stellar” . . I think we all do. It seems like there are a lot of newer players, and we have all prolly done it & it is nothing new, that pick up bad habits early on, and just never let go of them. They don’t seem to be taught much about the game or how to play it, and what is taught to them, is not really good game play or all that helpful usually. All I can say is, that if you base your enjoyment of something off the words/actions of others, you’ll prolly spend a good deal of time being . . . disappointed. “Expectations are the mothers of all resentments” . . . Unless you are the one that teaches them, hard to expect them to play to your level or play style . . “Teach them Senpai” . . . and yeah, that is tongue in cheek, as we all know there is only so much you can do there, just like . . . only so much you can do to influence a game . . . just don’t let it get to you man . . . the game is full of RNG . . . especially teams. No sense getting mad at the lottery . . . because the numbered ping pong balls . . . they don’t care one way or the other . . . C’es la Vie

85

I always play this game with the mindset thats it’s a me against the entire enemy team, in some cases it does get to that point so you’ll end up getting surrounded but chances are you’ll perform better since you’re more vigilant that way

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it’d say it’s kinda 50-50 wether it’s gonna be absolutely terrible or a decent match
If you’re lucky you’ll find that 1 guy who’ll become your ride or die buddy and just absolutely massacre the enemy by your side

so even if you have like half the team on your side holding a position, always assume there will be 1 guy that sneaks in and doesn’t get noticed killing everybody

86

Despite i was not really able to connect this with the OP regarding team mates:

Thank you very much for this “technical” insight. Even a plain user like me was able to get your point with this explanation. I really appreciate that!

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87

getting worst for me, just wanna play shoot something and win some but matches these days its just get steamrolled over and over so whats the fun and where is the fun

2mins in half team died once then enemy got cap and just park somewhere defend…the rest of us move in dead dont do anything a defeat

if this is once or twice out of 5 matches its normal but really 4 to 5 times the same thing…this kinda thing demoralize anyone to wanna continue playing

88

Tell me you don’t understand latency and server sided mechanics without saying you don’t understand latency and server sided mechanics…

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89

lol again… that’s all you could pick on from what I wrote. Small buffer shows again…

In what you quoted from me, the point is that the clients are running the simulation authoritatively for themselves and without server running the simulation itself. In architectures where server is simulating actual gameplay and distributing it to the clients that are smoothing it out, based on the most recent state of simulation from the server, and have limited authority over parts of the simulation connected to local player’s vehicle.

But in WT you can lag out the game to a point where tanks start flying, and then get back to having stable connection and you will see that the game is not correcting such flying tank positions and yet you’re still able to play. You can play with friends and see that one player will see your tanks touching in a way that suspension is rocking while on the other client there’s a significant gap. The client is not fixing the discrepancies against authoritative simulation on the server, and my guess is that is because there is none of that on the server.

Moreover you can play on high ping and still hit very fast moving vehicles that are changing direction as you would normally do, which means that the client is sending to the server information about whether you hit the target locally and the server is deciding whether you’re right or wrong, and that might be good strategy for handling latency, but at the scale WT is allowing it to happen, it doesn’t add up to authoritative simulation running on server with clients following it with prediction.

Stop being a smart ass and stop trolling.

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90

I know what I’m talking about, you don’t.

92

Have you tried kindly educating your comrades on ways to improve their gameplay?

93

Think about it bud, you’re the one having issues where no-one else really does… When you have something pointed out to you, you dismiss it because you NEED that excuse because otherwise you are the one having the issue.

And if you can’t tell the difference between a server replay and what the client uses, then when you’re trying to make up ‘reasons’ for what you see, you just look like an idiot…

And then when you make out that someone is a troll when they’re trying to tell you that, you’re ending up being delusional.

94

I assume you mean me. Yes, I used to try to do just that by letting people know if we need more people on the left flank for instance, or “Don’t clump together. You’ll get bombed or attract lots or arty”, or “enemy heading around the right flank”, etc. Almost never did anyone take any notice. People are so focussed on a single goal from the outset that they don’t care about anything else. That will usually be to do with completing a specific daily or special task towards their “Battle Pass”. Gaijin has steered this game far more towards individual goals rather than any team focus. Hence, it’s pointless saying anything these days because it’ll just get ignored.

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95

I usually just throw out random encouragement to the match to see who’s actually good to go, then do call outs on random things from there

That start is vital to retain the teams focus.

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96

I just stop even bother to ask teammats to flank/go different cap etc.
All they do is to lemmingtrain to the closest cap and die there by enemy from their sides… Battle mode made that even worst to the point i just leave every battle mode map

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97

Exactly. That’s why I gave up doing that long ago. It’s pointless. I’ve also come to the realization it’s also pointless thinking of players on your side as “team mates”. There is almost zero team focus in this game. It’s bad enough having braindead people on your “team”, but I also regularly come across players who are selfish and malicious enough to actively kill “team mates” by pushing them out into enemy fire simply because they happen to be using a firing position that the other guy wants. Had this happen several times since I got back to the game after a break of a number of months. Yes, I reported them, but it doesn’t help make my view of the community (or of the game) a positive one.

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98

I feel like if they made all tasks about “win the match while doing X” it would be different. Also maybe the required amount of matches won for a task could be/would have to be lower this way to be reasonable if now most of the players would want to win the match. But if they are actually filling in space with bots, it’s wouldn’t make a difference on those matches.

99

I think Gaijin should add voice communication to improve teamplay. In the heat of the moment it is hard to pay attention to the chat box

100

and the first thing most of the players will do is to turn it off.

It would make more sense to make battlefield-style commands for communication. Current setup is inconvenient. Set middle mouse button/scroll wheel to open up selection for commands and make world-space visible information that’s understandable, and it’d be a good start.

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101

That might help, but there is nowhere near enough reward for winning a match currently to make it a priority for anyone. Not helped by the fact that Gaijin are a bunch of cheapskates and won’t give anything away.

For example, a while back there was a poll asking the community what they thought of the rewards for winning/losing battles and from memory the options were basically “I’m happy with it as is” or “Increase loser rewards and decrease winner rewards”. Of course there was no option of “Just increase the loser rewards” or “increase both” because that would mean players were getting something for nothing, and we can’t have that can we?

Of course all the people too lazy to learn the game voted for the latter and Gaijin used it as an excuse to nerf the rewards for the winners to the point where there’s not much difference whether you win or lose. So now nobody cares. Also, you seem to get greater rewards the longer you survive even if you don’t achieve much which leads to some players just hiding in the rear for entire matches. The reward system needs a major overhaul to a) encourage teams to win by rewarding them appropriately, and b) properly rewarding people who make significant contributions to the outcome.

By rewarding people more for losing, it also encourages newbs without much experience or skills to advance too quickly because they find higher tiers more attractive with its more advanced hardware. If the loser rewards were lower, it would make that progression more difficult as they wouldn’t earn enough to make repairs etc and that would also fix one of the big problems with the game with clueless people playing beyond their abilities and thereby hindering the rest of the team.

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