I fully agree with you overall statement, and yes you need a high situational awareness in order to make a difference, but from a holistic pov you play after 10 minutes either 8v2 or 2v8. So the numbers game decide the matches most of the time - even if you would chose an op single engine fighter your “influence” is mostly limited - at least in Air RB.

I mean everybody who plays war thunder for years has bad memories connected to the old Wake Island map if you flew for the US side - in 90% of the matches you played alone after 8 minutes with 5 J2M2s behind and 3 A6Ms below you. If you flew anything else than a P-51 D-30 or P-38 J you got toasted…

I fully agree, but imho team cohesion is a thing you can’t influence and teamwork and communication strongly depends on player skill and is often impossible due to language barriers. So you ground players learn pretty fast that teamwork is important - the average Air RB player fights his own battle, every match.

I have no problems with uptiers , but i actually do not see (i play props only) any additional income from killing planes at higher BRs besides the “Rank doesn’t matter” rewards.

If you like challenges i strongly recommend playing the Italian P-47 D-30. It is actually the only single engine fighter i fly as i prefer twin engine planes - i fly with joystick, SFC and instructor off .

The challenge is that you fly 85% of your matches with 4 Ju 288s in your team. And you and 1 or 2 other non-bomber pilots face most of those matches 6-7 kill hungry US/GB fighters which outperforms you even at the same BR (5.0 P-51 D-30) or outclasses you like the 6.0 F2G…

If you are willing to accept 50% losses just as default value - you can have epic fights at the other 50% of those matches and decide them with luck and skill even against all odds - that’s why i still enjoy wt after 5 -6 years.

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Yeah, killing higher BR vehicles is a “meager” upscale of profits at best, even the additional rewards, Balancer, Rank does not Matter & a few others only pay out very small rewards . . . those are really some of things they could bump up to help the economy a little . . . But killing stuff lower just pays less is all . . it all adds up


Because of this lol

Just my two cents… gaijin should make a system like in world of tanks. Over there its called a bracket matchmaker.

There are different brackets in place and you get a random one ever match.
Brackets look like this as example:

10x T8 vs 10x T8

7x T8, 5x T9, 3xT10 vs 7x T8, 5x T9, 3xT10

10x T8, 5x T9 vs 10x T8, 5x T9

Its always balanced out for each team, also there is in generall less ± battle ratings, its only ±2 vs in wt its ±3 battle ratings.

Additionall i would highly suggest to wt to allow the creation of multi nation vehicle decks that player can create, so you would not be stuck with like 1 tank on a specific br just because this nation dosnt have more vehcles that can be effectife at that br… why not letting players choose from like 3 nations what they put into the deck and go into battle with it?

Typically I would just work on tasks and specials for a battle and not worry about victory or loss. I’ve been spading countries as I go which helps in battles regardless of what I face. But, not always. I’ve also been playing this game for over 5 years now and enjoy it - obviously. Victories and help from team mates also is nice along the way though, which - as the first post stated - seems out of reach sometimes. In the end, I know it’s just a game and to be enjoyed and I do like seeing new maps and using new tanks. I also think one of my problems is using each type of tank the same way - getting stuck in a rut, as it were. That alone gets me killed pretty quick, usually.

I’ve played World of Tanks, long before moving over to Thunder and it was enjoyable until I stepped up with the big boys. :) Thunder is definitely more realistic, to a degree, which also makes battles - typically - more violent and quick. Fights going down to the last shot in Thunder seem few and very far between, but those are the most enjoyable for me. Especially if I survive.

It’s a big lie that the MM only picks based on +/-1 BR

There is a team balancing system, it is based on the parameter “average relative position in the team” and probably works on overall stats + last 10 battles.

If you want to verify if the game is making you crazy, and it is, just open the first server replay and check the “average relative position in the team” in each player profile, add up the left team and the right team - magically, both are very close to each other EVERY TIME.

MM artificially tries to “balance” the game.


If they actually made any sort of effort to have some balance I don’t know why it would be a big secret.

Because in this way you can limit progress for better players by adding very weak ones to balance them? This artificially restricts my progress in researching new machines and earning SL.
this is just a scam on people who make each above average score.

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In exactly the same way, you give a “better experience” with a newly purchased premium tank or plane for dozens of battles - just pit a weak player against a very weak one. Anyone who is a bit observant will easily spot such manipulations.

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In theory, but if both are very close together as you say it just seems like it’s about creating more balanced matches and both side ends up with weak teams, in the long run that gives the same result as getting games with very strong and very weak players.

it’s not a theory, it’s a fact. You can verify it yourself at any time. Random server replay and make calculations. You don’t get the point, if I have to carry the weight of winning on my back all the time, it limits my individual performance because my team just dies and leaves doing nothing. And the more I try and make a better result despite “adversity”, the more I hurt myself because in the next rounds I will get even more garbage for the team. That’s why I die more, that’s why I lose more. The game artificially mini-pumps who is on my team and puts a lot of strain on me. This is especially noticeable in AB matches where I like to play sometimes and I always have “better players” on the opposite side. I go into a match and I can bet with 99% accuracy which side will win seeing only a few nicks. Getting someone better for my team borders on a miracle, and when playing a new vehicle, my progress is artificially limited only because I have above-average results on other tanks.


That can’t work though, they can’t hold you back specifically because it would benefit someone else, and you would also be placed on teams as a better player to hold back someone else. Both sides are going to have good and bad players and both sides will suffer from it with the better players just having to carry games and force out a win.

You can’t always just have a bad team, and all the bad players on your team would also be disadvantaged just in an attempt to hold you back?

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I’ve definitely noticed how players are placed on the list when a battle begins and always wondered how that was determined. Interesting thoughts. Battles yesterday seemed more balanced rather than Sunday when I played and just got steamrolled one battle after another.

There were a lot of interesting post in the old forum. Some of them were not deleted fast enough. The observations of the fellow player above a just the most obvious.
Others have analysed matches for months and showed different MM approaches/results also during the daytime and deviations between different servers and nations and after some unusual streaks…

This looked first like tin foil hat theories, but if you observe some patterns closely enough you might get other conclusions.


I just logged in and had 4 Defeats in a row at 8.7-9.0 BR and had to log off.

Here is matchmaking = pay4win wall. If you have tank with elite crew with all skills maxed out vs new player with basis crew then you you beat the person already regardless the BR.

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I agree. I’m also frustrated with the fact that we’re now getting thrown into a battle that’s already half over. I accept that every other battle is either getting steamrolled or steamrolling the other team, but it’s a waste of a booster when you’re thrown into a fight that’s already lost and you can normally only play one vehicle before it’s over.


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I dont get the complaint…IF there is a team balancing system, isn’t this supposed to make for FAIRER matches? Or are you saying you want to be on a stronger team so you can win more?

BTW…all players should check their win ratio before complaining for too many losses…most players are within the 45-55 win ratio, usually 49-51…which is the usual value. Simple reason, the individual effect is small, so if you play enough matches you will win as many as you lose…at least in arcade. In RB and SB the nation and BR have a larger effect.

Of course there are some bad days…i also get 5+ losses in a row on occasion…but we usually notice more “losses” than “wins”…even if the are balanced…

The fellow player described an easy to watch phenomenon - the longer you play successful, the less skilled your own team becomes, your full uptier ratios get higher and your enemies gets smarter - all on average view.

This EOL or player rating system has from my view some flaws as somehow the mode you are good at is not really considered, so you find often better than average tankers on top of the enemy team.

But at a certain point you run into a quite good enemy team with a hell of good fighter pilots and your own team consists of rookies - at least in Air RB.

And from a holistic pov ELOs in all f2p games have the goal to serve the overall purpose of the game - to support income by selling stuff.

A fair match is not really supporting such a goal.

Even if you as an individual see this different - psychology and the ability to predict player behavior show that you need fully intended obstacles in order to keep the average player motivated. Btw the same rules apply to everything in life…

Why? If you proceed too easy you might not see the need to increase your SL/RP income by buying premium stuff - if you proceed too slow you might lose interest. Very delicate balance.