I’m talking about the game, a hit with a 155mm HE shell containing 9.14kg of TNT eq compared to a hit with 95Ya6 with 8.47kg of TNT eq is going to do almost the same amount of damage if they hit the same area of the same tank.
In the game most of those hits would likely kill a tank whichever of the two you use because its the explosive mass that overpressures the tank and kills the crew, not the penetration amount of the shrapnel (most cases).
Which is proof the game is modelling HE too simplistically. Overpressure does exist but we are talking top tier tanks with in many cases spall liners and multiple layers of composite armour.
If direct fire was a viable AT solution why is the Pzh 2000 not a rapid fire tank destroyer?
If this is the stance the game is taking then Roland and Pantsir have a distinct advantage in protecting themselves with missiles that really should have limited affect on an armoured target.
Sorry if I’ve taking things off track, however I was responding to what Necronomica had said.
Also his reasoning is loose. The missile travels faster then stated (Mach4 on Wikipedia) , then there’s the detonation behind the tungsten darts. So the missile is going around 2800mph, plus detonation.
At a speed greater than Mach 3.0, it is the fastest missile on the market among its SHORAD competitors"
"https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/markets/defence-and-security/air-forces/advance-air-defence/starstreak
Which is an entirely different diskussion.
My entire point i’m trying to make is that the comparisons you were making in the main post wasn’t fair due to the vastly differing amounts of explosives in the munitions you compared.
I was not advocating for the Stormer to be able to destroy tanks
But at the same time a Roland or Pantsir should be equally as helpless (excluding the 30mms)
The starstreak doesn’t have tungsten “darts” in that sense, it’s not a solid projectile, its many small parts put together designed to create as many small fragments as possible on explosion.
That front part might look solid but it isn’t:
yes you were?
Yes its designed to be able to engage both, Pantsir and Roland were not.
I would at least like to be able to hurt a tank take a track off maybe even damage a barrel. But no it cant do that. It has zero effect even on light tanks it used to make short work now it’s multiple shots
Can Gaijin even provide proof that Pantsir can target ground based targets with it’s missiles?
Can Roland?
Aircraft have arbitrary firing windows Brimstone/Hellfire etc yet we have SAMS just using missiles on what they like while hot swapping warheads that suit.
It was only playing a game and having to put 3 missiles into a 2S38 that made me check to see if the stats have been changed which lead the topic. The only missile here designed to penetrate anything has the lowest penetration.
From what i remember from the stormer thread, someone used the exact mass and dimensions of the starstreak and worked out using gaijins formula that the pen should be around 62mm (rough from memory but the old 50mm was more accurate). They are tiny tungsten darts with a little he filler to shrapnel like a grenade. Also, the speed we have in game is too slow as irl its stated as almost mach 4 (aka mach 3+ because saying almost mach 4 is somehow worse than saying 3?) which has been desputed at GREAT length and ive given up all hope for any of this to be fixed alongside the challengers. Mainly because gaijin assume mach 3+ means EXACTLY mach 3.
So, to answer your question. Yes, it should have more pen and no, it wont be changed…
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well sure, but how something is designed and how it can be used if the operator wants to are different things though.
Aren’t both those systems SACLOS and can fire at whatever they are aiming?
it isn’t designed to penetrate any reasonable amount of armor. It’s designed for use against “light skinned armoured vehicles”.
The Starstreak is designed to be able to take on “some” ground targets. Those parts are still tungsten, and the blast is designed to push the “dart” as far into and do as much damage as possible.
Keep in mind that the Starstreak makes mincemeat of things like the Hind, aka flying tanks
A demonstration was conducted in September 1999 that showed the missile being used against an FV432 armoured personnel carrier…
It’s highly likely they were using the entire darts weight (without the filler) as a penetrator when doing those calculations. it isn’t solid in any meaning of the word and splinters into tiny pieces when exploding. there isn’t a “dart” that would penetrate armor in that sense.
now that sounds interesting, do you have a link to that?
From what i know they were never designed SPECIFICALLY against ground targets. It was just a happy little accident. The martlets were designed for multip purpose with a fragmentation/heat warhead with roughly 500mm of pen. Ask for them rather than bothering trying to ge the starstreaks fixed as gaijin dont want to hear it. Its hard enough trying to explain that the stormer has iff let alone missiles that go faster than mach 3 (because you know, mach 3+ implies it goes a little faster than mach 3 exactly but who knows).
Oh, im fully aware that the missiles will crumple like wet paper on contact, but some of the parts of the missiles are entirly tungsten while also being more solid than the actual body acting like penetrators rather than the rod itself. But the lower speeds we have in game also dont help.
Why cant I use AMRAAMS to shoot tanks? That line of discussion doesn’t work, but I agree.
Likely can I’m not intimate with either fire control system. Issue is still the absurd penetration value of the missiles.
Light skinned vehicles, tank barrels and tracks and IFVs aren’t heavilly armoured last time I checked
Your sounding like the us military, pretty sure they looked into using am9 for ant ground roles.
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What parts would that be?
Im not sure it would matter, the thing is rifle calibre rated im pretty sure. Anything bigger than a potato cannon is going through that.