Starstreak is designed to be able to hit ground and air targets yet in game it is so tragically nerfed SAMS with proxy fuses have more penetration power.
The Starstreak when facing any moderately armoured vehicle have no effect on target yet a Pantsir can kill a tank by shooting it in the side. This is just wrong when the Pantsir has a proximity fuse and cannot be used to strike ground targets. The same can be said about Roland.
Does Gaijin have penetration tables for SAMs that they base these values from?
I’m not entirely sure but i think it’s because of the low amount of explosives. Not enough to cause overpreasure and the shrapnel will travel at a slower speed and thus carry less energy.
I do not know how they calculate the darts though as they should probably penetrate more than 20mm depending on material and speed.
These are the penetration values based on the explosive content of the missiles.
Idk if it’s still the case, but the starstreak on the Apache at least used to have higher penetration values listed on the statcard.
Also, in WT it can be configured whether a proxy fuse fuses on ground, ground vehicles or aircraft seperately, not to mention most SAM proxy fuses don’t work close to the ground.
When, no, it was a long time ago. There was never a official statement why iirc, but they were abused with first spawn teapache.
Overall a bunch of sources can be found saying Starstreak can be used in anti armour role, and in one of the videos a guy from tales stated approximate energy the darts carry with them.
I vaguely remember that the ground version had lower penetration than the one of the teapache, but idk if that’s still the case. But anyway, I believe they upped the spawncosts of the starstreak a while ago anyway, so firstspawning them is no longer a thing.
I think its highly unlikely that they made a changed for penetration values because of something like that. It’s almost always because of bugs or historical reasons.
Edit:
Its more likely that they increased the spawn cost of them which they did in this update:
(Update 2.35.1.107)
Its still a really small missile, that has a jetisoned booster section.
By the time it arms and impacts any modern tanks armour should repel it.
I would also wager whether or not a Pantsir missile can be used to hit any target and does not require an aerial track before hand. Useage in a certain event with reinforce this with Pantsir favouring to use the 30mm on small targets and not missiles.
Roland couldn’t not be used on ground targets it simply was not designed with that in mind.
Starstreak can though and was designed as such, as of now a tungsten dart travelling at mach 3.0 penetrates less.
Based on old videos they nerfed the penetration values by 20mm! from what I can see it was 50mm once upon a time. It would definitely align with nerfing the Teapache’s ability to use them in an A2G capacity
one million Jules of energy isn’t really a lot in this context. If we take what they say in the video mach 3 and 1MJ, with (m*v^2)/2=E we get to the point where the dart weighs a total of ~1.89kg. The dart isn’t made for armor penetration as it is also filled with electronics and explosives which gives it WAY less structural integrity than a APFSDS shell.
So compare that to a APFSDS shell, lets say DM33 that weighs 4.3kg and moves at roughly mach 5 which gives it a kinetic energy of slightly over 6.3 million Jules. and that is also designed for armor penetration and is Solid Tungsten.
So a starstreak dart has less than 1/6 the energy and likely less than 1/5 the overall density and as such way less structural integrity.
So if we then just assume that those factors result in 1/30 the amount of penetration capabilities (its likely even going top be less than that due to how armor is designed) and use the 0m values of the DM33 of 496mm penetration we get 496/30=~16.5mm of penetration. lets give it the benefit of the doubt and increase the average density as well as a bit of extra speed that would land us at 20mm penetration.
These calculations are most likely not correct but i just wanted to show how much those things can effect penetration values.
compare the changed speed, that’s likely your answer to the changed pen values.
and as the video you sent med stated; mach 3 which is ~1029~m/s so even slower than what the game currently uses.
We both know Gaijin don’t do energy calculations for weapon systems they put it into the Jacob de Marre formula. Pretty disingenuous to present this as the case for discussion.
Comparing a full size APFSDS dart is also questionable perhaps an APFSDS from a 25mm autocannon would have been a better example?
What data do we use to allow a Pantsir missile to penetrate that much armour, Or a Roland the missile has fragmentation warhead designed to shoot down aircraft and it also has electronics to lower it’s density.
On one hand we have a system designed for this purpose on the other hand we have Gaijin placating Russia and Germany allowing a Roland and Pantsir to destroy tanks.
Which is a ridiculous way to model an air defence missile.
it should have less penetration as it doesn’t have a penetrator. It is not an HE weapon
It explodes in a cloud of shrapnel it has a continuous rod warhead
All that energy would be dissipated vertically along the structure of what it hits directly
Just as a reference here is the penetration of a US 105mm HE shell
And here is a current NATO 155mm shell Gaijin would have us believe a Pantsir air defence missile has the same penetration and damage as a 155mm HE shell.
They weren’t ment to show any thing else than how big of a difference speed and density can make for penetration.
They use Jacob de Marre for AP/APC/APBC/APCBC shells. for APFSDS they use the Lanz-Odermatt formula. but the Lanz-Odermatt formula wont work for anything with a density lower than like 16 point something g/cm^3 .
and i don’t think any of those can be used for the starstreak. It has to low density for the Lanz-Odermatt and the Jacob de Marre assumes uniform solid armor as well as disregards density and length of the shell.
I don’t really think it can be compared to any sort of penetrating shell to any reasonable extent as even if we just take straight up numbers they are going to be way to high for the starstreak as it isn’t of uniform density and is full of electronics and explosives which would make just crumble to pieces against any modern layered armor. Again, the calculations above was just to show how much speed/density can affect things.
Now i know Wikipedia isn’t a source but i don’t have the energy to search for better onesso… yeah.
If we look at those numbers they write that each dart weighs 0.9kg and 450g of that is just explosives. that means 0.45kg of metal at roughly 1100m/s , metal that isn’t densely packed (https://youtu.be/2w1LPOPeM-Y?si=kDapxO8-qrK-ljim&t=69) and where a lot of it explodes out to the sides instead of going into the armor. lets be super generous and say that 0.38kg metal remains to make it easy to compare to something like the 35mm APDS shell of the CV9035DK which weighs 0.38kg and travel at 1400m/s.
so using the mv^2/2=E again we get 372kJ for the APDS and 230kJ for the star streak with the speed being the only difference (even if there is going to be A lot more than that affecting it). That means only 62% of the energy and if we just use straight numbers (which, again, are going to give us way to high pen-numbers) we get 127mm0.62=~79mm penetration. And that’s being hugely generous with many things.
You are comparing the wrong things. the HE shells penetrates with the explosive mass, not the speed/mass of the shell. The Pantsir missile has close to the same amount of TNT equivalent as the 155mm HE shell.
The starstreak has like less than a fifth the amount of TNT equivalent of both.
