SP Price imbalance between SPAAGMs and aircraft in Ground Realistic Battles

[Kievskiy_Minipig]

@gfdsa_killer

bmp2

Much worse hpt ratio, guidance speeds and only 1 inferior cannon.

@gfdsa_killer

bmp2m

First 2 bmp issues but also much higher br and much faster and stronger enemies. Mbts move faster than you.

@gfdsa_killer

bmp3

9.3 with even worse 2a72 and huge atgm reload. You have nothing going for you for 26 seconds. Hpt ratio is worse as well. Oh I forgot to mention accuracy nerfs. Not only you have worse ammo and firerate, you also miss modules.

@gfdsa_killer

brdm-4,

Shadow of its former self after br and accuracy nerfs. And faces actual mbts with decent mobility and gun handling. Sliming leo 1 ≠ polishing barrels of m1 or leo 2a4.

@gfdsa_killer

EBRC

@gfdsa_killer

Ajax

You are facing much stronger enemies than itpsv.

@gfdsa_killer

ZSU-57

It has no stab or outstanding mobility

@gfdsa_killer

M-42,

Duster? Much slower, much worse firerate and ammo. And crew is exposed and asking to get shot at with mg.

@gfdsa_killer

Kugerblitz

12 hp ton is nowhere close to 30 hp ton.

@gfdsa_killer

2s38

Slow firerate, slow chassis, stronger and faster enemies.

@gfdsa_killer

hstvl

It could be solid candidate if it didnt face top tier tanks and had more consistent dmg.

@gfdsa_killer

Not the same time tho, but enough to pull the same killstreak with that flankings

They are worse at this job than itpsv. Much worse.

@gfdsa_killer

Many, and even faster than a leo chasis

At 8.7? Faster than 30 hpt? I only recall xm800t but it has much worse ammo, survivability and is light. Which is disadvantage because trash slows you down more.

Those 2 videos were made when bmd 4 was at 9.3.

@gfdsa_killer

Your average player base can be stupid, but not that stupid like in that video.

It can be that bad, even stats prove it. Vast majority of players gets around 1 kill every 2 respawns.

Either way, this is going offtopic so I guess we can just agree to disagree.

[山_田_凉]

It is a losing battle that any CAS player fights. Whether on the battlefield or in discussion. The reason SP costs for SPAA are so low, and SP costs for CAS so high, is due in large part to the people who do not have a plane, do not want to put the effort into researching a plane, hate seeing any planes in game, and incessantly whine for any nerf to CAS, no matter how unbalanced or unrealistic. These people do not listen to reason or logic; they do not care for concepts such as “fairness” or “equality”. The only thing they will do is advocate in their self-interest, and that self-interest is exactly to make CAS as useless and irrelevant to the match as possible.

[Caernarvon02]

This is a pantsir problem not an SPAA problem

[dotSHINI]

Funny thing but i own top tier planes, amd do like to use them.

All your complains are completly wrong.
Many are like this.

Just cause you dont seem to understand the inherit problem doesnt mean that most others dont.

It ends with CAS players whining cause they do not know how to correctly play their CAS planes and expect free passage

[DevilO6]

That’s so cool!
Where can I get a Pantsir like that?
I want one!
I must have gotten a cheap knockoff, as mine can guide only 4 :(

[БрИт4нСкUй_П0дС0С]

@Sytryse

I should remind you that reward for using spaa are lower then using any ground verhicles or planes/jets/helicopters.

@dotSHINI

spaa make way less points per kill

Where did this information come from?

Same sp for kill as MBT

More rp and sl for air kill than ground kill for MBT and much more than ground kills for CAS

[Ckasaron]

Truthfully, I could see SPAAG prices going up, provided the things got the overhaul they badly, BADLY need.

1. Undo all SAM controllability nerfs. If we have crazy modern weapons that are effectively “Rods From God,” then SAMs should be equivalently potent and easy to use in average player hands.

2. Model DIRCM realistically so its only where the helicopter is aiming the receiver instead of an immortality bubble. Have it only work on IR missiles like the “IR” part of its name reads.

3. Have helicopters be easily locked onto by thermal seekers - they still use variations of jet engines for fuck’s sake save for very early ones running on piston engines.

4. Have helicopters be everpresent on Doppler Radar due to the spinning rotor blades always moving closer and away simultaneously.

5. Give all Non-Radar SPAAGs (and Radar ones with the radars turned off) Crew Skill-derived lead indicators. Real AA crews were trained to estimate lead, so tie it to the Rangefinding skill. Stock crews get this Arcade-styled lead indicator from 0-1000m distance. Aced crews get it from 0-1600m distance. That way, playing SPAAGs prior to getting radars is intentionally not a guessing game asking for every tank on the map to home in on and kill you while you look up. SPAAG are stuck on claustrophobic maps with limited field of view, and lack their real-world numerical advantage vs attacking planes - of course they get slaughtered by any decent pilot, its just like lone bombers not in box formations.

6. Globally un-nerf APCR and APDS in their penetration and/or post-penetration damage effect at all gun sizes.

7. Remove “Shell Shattered” entirely - it isn’t applied to APHE rounds which it happened to most frequently, so why punish subcalibers?

8. Give every reasonable SPAAG any and all missing anti-armor rounds. The 40mm Bofors L/60 and L/70 (all flavors in various nations) are missing APDS rounds (the direct ancestor to the APFSDS found on Swedish high tier IFVs). German 37mm Flak36, Flak43, and Flak44 are missing APCR rounds (same one found on the airborne BK 3,7 cannon on several planes). The M163, Shilkas, Tunguska, hell even the Pantsir are missing APDS rounds. The infamous R3 T20 FA-HS has the same chamber dimensions and cartridge sizes as the Rh202 - therefore it should get the same APDS. The Falcon and AMX-30 DCA are missing APIC-T rounds. I think the only ones which no such rounds are known for are the ZSU-37/2 Yenisei and the 20mm Oerlikons on the Skink, AEC Mk II AA, Crusader AA Mk II, and the Swedish car (if such rounds do exist please correct me).

9. Remove arbitrary doctrinal limits on APDS/APFSDS ammunition stowage on all high tier SPAAGs - if people want to bring as much sabot as they can stuff into their gills, let them go nuts, and let the whiners eat sabot.

10. Delete barrel damage from the game. This one dumb gameplay feature, even if technically realistic, is what makes SPAAG so irritating when playing a tank - they can fly around the corner and disable your ability to shoot back in less than a second at times. Instead of repeatedly nerfing SPAAG when it should be pretty damn clear that people WANT to mow down tanks with autocannons, just let them do it but allow tanks which don’t get instantly penned through their actual armor to spin the gun around and delete the SPAAG in response.

With all of this, then yes, go ahead and increase SPAAG spawn costs to the same level as light tanks, while giving light tanks scouting intentionally.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Zahltag

mate play the roland vs the su25 and tell me the su is in a bad spot

The Su-25 is in a bad spot

[Zahltag]

Have you tried pulling up and rolling at the same time? A single barrel roll makes the roland missile lose any chance to get on target

[Pangolin_Fan]

It doesn’t seem to help the Su-25’s from my experience.

[Zahltag]

It helps every time. The roland is useless against it.

[Morvran]

I don’t understand why 2-4 is still a thing.

5 is a good idea.

The others I’m on the fence about, not against, but not for either

[Norm_Von_Dolbit]

@dotSHINI

Maps are made spaa unfriendly inherintly.

Finland, Tunisia, Spaceport, Fulda, Poland, Europen Province, Ardenes, Maginot Line, Test Site, Advance to the Rhine, Northern Holland, Seversk-13, Aral Sea, Iberian Castle, Berslau, Flanders, Sun City, Fire Arc, Fields of Normandy, Abandoned Town, Abandoned Factory, Surroundings of Volokolamsk, Cargo Port, Sweden. All those are SPAA friendly, any town/city map is a hell for CAS, flat maps provide good vision for radars.

@dotSHINI

Planes are able to easily oversaturate the defenses of the spaas as long as it is not a pantsir.

Only if there is more than one and they have enough munitions, also if you actually hide/cover and space out your TELs then it is actually very hard to take you out, especially when map provides cover.

@dotSHINI

F-15E has 20 fnf glide bombs.
What is a spaa supposed to do against those?

He needs time to fire all of those, all thise time he is vurnurable, and again - seek cover for your TELs. Yes, not all maps provide it, but vast majority of them do. Not to mention if he actually launches all 20 at you he will not have much left to work with, in my expirience where is one SPAA there is two, and three… and four…, and the spam never ends.

@dotSHINI

Helicopters with multipath and ldrccm cant be touched by most spaas.

Yes helis are complete cancer.

@dotSHINI

Planes and helicopters always have had an inherit advantage against spaas.

No they don’t, you clearly not playing CAS, currently CAS is just fighting infinite SPAA spam, and you can’t just “press button to get rid of them” you actually need to employ tactics and strategize. And if there is more than one SPAA (whiche usually is the case) you are up to 3-5 minutes of sweaty heache with non-guaranteed outcome.

[dotSHINI]

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

Finland, Tunisia, Spaceport, Fulda, Poland, Europen Province, Ardenes, Maginot Line, Test Site, Advance to the Rhine, Northern Holland, Seversk-13, Aral Sea, Iberian Castle, Berslau, Flanders, Sun City, Fire Arc, Fields of Normandy, Abandoned Town, Abandoned Factory, Surroundings of Volokolamsk, Cargo Port, Sweden. A

they are inherintly spaa unfriendly.
Cause spaas can not move all to much, CAS will alwas able to find spaas in the same areas near spawn. since every other space most of the time the spaa gets killed by ground vehicles.

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

any town/city map is a hell for CAS,

any town/city map is pure cancer for spaas as well.
Cause guess what the same buildings blocking you, block the radars and missles of the sam

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

flat maps provide good vision for radars.

and great targeting for CAS, cause the spaa cant move from spawn

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

Only if there is more than one and they have enough munitions, also if you actually hide/cover and space out your TELs then it is actually very hard to take you out, especially when map provides cover.

dotSHINI:

the TEL are giant as well, the cover is not that easy, if you arent hindering your own radar

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

Not to mention if he actually launches all 20 at you he will have not much left to work with, in my expirience where is one SPAA there is two, and three… and four…, and the spam never ends.

you dont need need 20 most of the time either way, cause most fnf sams are actualy shit at intercepting stuff. The game is not able to do lofting and interception of small stuff well.
Pantsir once again is one of the few example where interception works cause of direct fire missles and cannons

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

No they don’t, you clearly not playing CAS,

Oh i do.

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

you actually need to employ tactics and strategize.

i never denied that, you actualy need to play the CAS what a suprise, you are complaining that you arent allowed to fly over a map relase 6-26 fnf armament and kill an entire team?

The whole issue is that CAS has way more kill potential then SAMs, a CAS that isnt hindered, will change the entire game. You know what happens to a SAM when it doesnt meet CAS? exactly nothing.
SAMs do not have any impact in the game if the enemy doesnt spawn CAS, you are taking up a player slot doing nothing.
A CAS that isnt hindered by a SAM? GG your whole team died, in the time 3-5 guys respawned to “revenge” kill the CAS, you can be done to refill and the enemy has 3-5 spawn that cant contribute to retaking the objectives.

[Norm_Von_Dolbit]

@dotSHINI

ou are complaining that you arent allowed to fly over a map relase 6-26 fnf armament and kill an entire team?

My complain is that abscense of limit for SPAA and planes that can be spawned at any given moment + shitty map design makes game a complete shitshow and ruin expirience both for SPAA and CAS.

If I managed to kill all present SPAAs I indeed should be rewarded with at least one safe run over the battlefield. If somebody wants to stop me they should sacrifice MBT and J out to spawn SPAA. Players shouldn’t be allowed to spawn SPAA continiously.

[DevilO6]

@Norm_Von_Dolbit

If I managed to kill all present SPAAs I indeed should be rewarded with at least one safe run over the battlefield. If somebody wants to stop me they should sacrifice MBT and J out to spawn SPAA

But, thats is exactly just like in game right now?

[Pangolin_Fan]

@DevilO6

But, thats is exactly just like in game right now?

Not, that is not,

[Tastiera322]

OP picked the best SPAA.
You picked the worst.

[Norm_Von_Dolbit]

Lmao no, depending on how and when you took out SPAA you need 10-40 seconds to gain altitude/distance/turn around, thats more than enough time for player you just killed to spawn again using duplicate/another SPAA.

[Tastiera322]

Try any BR 7.0-12.0 capped. Top tier isn’t the whole game.

tbh killing all present SPAAs isn’t a good precondition. It’s already winning a 1v(N+k)