What does killing medium tanks have to do with it? They will struggle with shooting down 8.0-9.0 vehicles.
And they would be fighting against 6.7-7.7 at best 25% of the time.
So should we remove the AP / SAPHEI belts for those SPAAs? After all, what does that have to do anything with their BRs.
You’re thinking of the top end, but ignoring the low end.
The ZSU-37-2 and Veak 40 are really good at dealing with 7.7 - 7.0 CAS aircraft, but really bad at dealing with 8.7-9.0 CAS aircraft. I think that’s pretty fair.
Things start to become somewhat difficult at around 8.0, maybe 8.3.
And the 8.3 - 9.0 aircraft would be fighting the Veak 40 / ZSU-37-2 at best 25% of the time too.
You get uptiered 75% of the time. So no, they will not be facing 8.3-9.0 25% of the time.
And there are plenty of CAS (including helicopters) that can outrange the Veak 40 guns. With all the scout drones flying around it would be easy for some CAS to kill a spotted Veak while still out of range of it’s guns.
“Things start to get bad at around 8.0, maybe 8.3” is probably the majority of enemies they would face if bumped up in BR.
Veak is a huge soft target, so pumping up it’s BR because it could potentially kill some tanks makes no sense. It is not a tank-hunter.
Gaijin needs to fix the armor loophole wrt to APHE rounds. And yes, if they for whatever reason can’t/won’t fix it, they should remove the AP belt. It is not needed in a vehicle like the Veak. A (best case) pen of 68mm (SAPHEI) is not overwhelming in the least.
I’d call it overpowered. The Gepards should be 9.0 minimum. The Leo 2 Marksman and Za 35 could easily go to 9.3 right now even without decompression.
Are you saying this in context to their ground performance, or their performance in what they’re supposed to be doing, shooting down planes?
Either way it really doesnt belong at 9.0 in the games current state, it actually faces quite nicely off with most 9.0 jets I’d say, and although its usually taboo to be used as an argument, but a full uptier leads you to fight against things the gepard has no hope of winning against. So 8.7 is fine in the game’s current state, 9.0 or maybe even 9.3 will probably be perfect in the event of a good round of decompression.
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Think about it.
You’re saying that the 6.7 players only get fully uptiered to 7.7 25% of the time, but 7.7 / 8.0 players get fully uptiered to 8.7 / 9.0 75% of the time.
I don’t see how that makes sense unless the 8.7 / 9.0 players get full downtiers more often.
I mean sure, but this is an issue for all radar spaas at that BR. ZSU-23-4 is even worse with that than either the ZSU-37-2 or Veak 40.
This is not just a problem with the Veak, but any SPAA in general.
These enemies are not unbeatable. The only unbeatable CAS are MCLOS gods, which majority are at 8.7-9.0 ( like I was saying).
That’s funny because Gepard and other 35mm SPAAs also aren’t tank hunters and yet they are used as such (because they can and it’s actually viable), and so here we are in this thread.
That’s funny considering 68mm of pen APHE is what the 35mm APHE slingers have, which are currently (and rightfully) being complained about.
The Veak may not need an AP belt in most cases ( if played only as an SPAA) but then you’re effectively a free kill for any tank, which isn’t fun if you’re familiar with getting bombed in a tank.
My suggestion would be the following:
- Increase the rewards for killing planes
- Add realistic APHE spalling for rounds below a certain calibre (45mm cutoff?)
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Yeah sounds about right, will instantly cutoff the amount of SPAA ground predators by 50% or so. Which is enough in my eyes, there will always be people who like to play as rats (sometimes me admitedly, but still in favour of APHE nerf for them and general reduction in effectiveness against ground)
That’s what I’ve been saying 😭
7.3/7.7 players seem to roughly get just as many downtiers as 8.7 / 9.0 players.
8.0 is unfortunate, but it doesn’t mean that the Veak 40 / ZSU-37-2 should not go to 8.0.
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Oh im not particulary keen on joining the discussion, I just wanted to provide the data.
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Could you tell me where you got this from? It seems useful and up-to-date.
Follow the link through highlighted word “data”, it was compiled by Bruce_R1 with statshark data, he explains it in detail in the linked topic.
Ah my bad, I didn’t notice the link, thanks.
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np. if you find the data useful, be sure to let original author know.
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Already have 😅
So it should be 9.0. That’s like saying the Bf 109 G-2 should be 4.0 cause it’s a good match for the 4.3 Yak-3.
Just do the math…
16 tanks per side and only 4 get Top Tier. That’s 25%
If you are not Top Tier you are uptiered … 100 - 25 = 75%.
May not be a problem just for the Veak, but it contributes to more problems when increasing the BR
Gepard and other spaa like the Falcon have APDS which gives them better armor pen. They also have a better ROF. I really can’t recall seeing many complaints about the Veak’s tannk-hunting issues.
For the most part, when a Veak encounters a MBT is when the enemy has overrun the map. The Veak having a desperate chance to survive a little longer and maybe take one enemy with it is not cause for bumping the BR.
IMO increasing the BR for spaa that can destroy enemy ground vehicles is a mistake. It does not prevent it from destroying ground vehicles. But it does make doing it’s main job (shooting down CAS) a bit harder.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Yes, that’s what I agree with you.
I may have poorly phrased this, so I do apologize.
This is why the Veak 40 and ZSU-37-2 (if they were 8.0) would only see 9.0 aircraft 25% of the time.
This is also why 6.7 aircraft would only see 7.7 Veak 40 and ZSU-37-2 25% of the time too.
8.0 Veak 40 and ZSU-37-2 would face 7.0-8.0 aircraft just as likely as it would face 8.0-9.0 aircraft.
What problems?
Gepard and such have better firerate than the Veak 40, yes, but it doesn’t mean that the Veak 40 is incapable of being a nuisance.
People are complaining about the Gepard and such because they’re more problematic.
APDS is only necessary for only a certain number of vehicles.
Most MBTs you can kill with 35mm/40mm APHE either frontally or side-on.
It’s not just the chance to survive a little longer, but go complete anti-tank mode (like the 35mm APHE slingers) if you so choose to do so.
I mean sure, but I’m saying its effectiveness against aircraft and tanks justifies an 8.0 BR, not just one or the other.
Maybe…