So freaking infuriating to lose this way

[Uncle_J_Wick]

@Conundrummer

That’s why it’s infuriating.

The only infuriating thing in this thread (besides the OP trying to blame others for own mistakes / being outplayed) are such comments:

@Conundrummer

I’d argue the contrary - that he was playing extremely passive and avoiding other players and just playing a PvE minigame on his own
Playing like this might carry its own risks but I don’t think it’s arguable that fighting other players takes more effort and knowledge of the game than clicking on static red dots on the ground. That’s why it’s infuriating. You lose to someone who puts in less work and is less skilled than you because he wanted to grind RP by groundpounding and most likely wasn’t even trying to win the game but just got lucky with how the match progressed.

Don’t get me wrong - this is nothing personal, but i am tired to see such a pile of nonsense - as you just repeat stereotypes, but you ignore the facts in this specific case.

1. The main issue within this forum (like on every other social platform) is that some people feel the need to spread fact-free opinions.

2. If the counter of replay views on replay site works correct, i was the only one who watched it - 2 times and 2 time on top for a couter check.

3. Although i share some of your general views (skill gap PvP vs PvE) you felt the need to share your opinion, totally ignoring my previous analysis and without watching the replay.

4. That’s the main reason why your posts as a whole are actually useless for this specific example, even if from a general pov your opinion regarding PvP vs PvE is reasonable.

I wrote:

@Uncle_J_Wick

The best player in this match killed a few ground units right at the start.

If you would have noticed that (and would have checked his player card) you would have seen that this guy has an outstanding track record and is better you in every aspect - in PvP. Even if his KpB of 1.7 is just slightly higher, regarding K/D you are completely outclassed (~5:1 vs ~ 2:1).

So if a highly skilled and actually very smart player is able to decide and win a 6 vs 6 match with smart decision making it is actually a prove of quality - and you tried to downplay this without an attempt to have a neutral view on this specific match. Seriously?

[Conundrummer]

You’re in the right here.
I didn’t check the replay of the match and took what OP said at face value and was arguing for what turned out to be a hypothetical game or anecdotal experiences. That’s why I didn’t reply to your post specifically. Because you had actual facts to back up the claim that the better player ended up winning the match.

[Tiger_Mafia_146]

Did you even know that K/D in the stats card includes AI kills? Of course his K/D is higher than mine all he’s killing is AI targets. You don’t know a thing about what you’re saying.

[Uncle_J_Wick]

@Tiger_Mafia_146

Did you even know that K/D in the stats card includes AI kills? Of course his K/D is higher than mine all he’s killing is AI targets.

Dude - you make things even worse now.

For starters:

1. KpB = Kills per Battle, shown on the stat cardby selecting the mode
2. K/D = Kill per Death ration = Total number of player kiss vs deaths

By moving your mouse on the KpB ratio you see the number of player kills and deaths. Ai targets are displayed seperate there.

Stats for Air RB (last 4 weeks):

190 F-8 player

• KpB 1.77
• Total number of (air) player kills: 575
• Total number of deaths: 115
• K/D ratio: 5:1

You:

• KpB 0.74
• Total number of (air) player kills: 183
• Total number of deaths: 200
• K/D ratio: Negative

@Tiger_Mafia_146

You don’t know a thing about what you’re saying.

Me:

• KpB 0.97
• Total number of (air) player kills: 524
• Total number of deaths: 55
• K/D ratio: ~ 10:1

Imho you find yourself marked on this chart:

[Tiger_Mafia_146]

Again you still don’t know a thing. The stat card in-game doesn’t account for a lot of things. My K/D in aircraft is low because I played bombers a lot to grind RP. My K/D in fighters is almost always above 1.5.

If you look at the Yak-3, which I played in this game, in the last 6 matches I’ve killed 20 players and only died 3 times.

[Uncle_J_Wick]

@Tiger_Mafia_146

Again you still don’t know a thing.

Whatever you say man.

Bookmark this thread and read it again in 2027.

Maybe you will be more experienced then - and learned some key lessons:

1. It is pointless to start a rant thread just because you (and your team) got outsmarted (and outplayed) by a way better player in a technically seen worse plane.
2. It is usually a smart move to take feedback - and think about it. Nobody here is your enemy. You messed up - np, that happens every day. Nobody is perfect.
3. Trying to argue with stats is pointless - as stats are just your personal thing. Stats can be easily manipulated; they have to be seen in a broader context. So in this context - stats are either adding credibility to certain claims or assumptions - or they take them away.
4. Getting outplayed and starting a rant thread is one thing - blaming others for own deficits is especially in this forum the usual approach. Telling others they “don’t know a thing”, despite they proved you several times to be flat wrong won’t get you anywhere - neither in wt, nor in life.

[BlackberryAvar]

Have a gander at this then.

I wasn’t defeated by a player, actually. I was defeated by the AIs, which are not player controlled. The player who did the groundpounding crashed and died while trying to land. Only a single bomber was left.

Yet, in about 2 minutes the AIs killed themselves without player interaction and drained 1000 tickets, which did not give me enough time to counteract the ticket bleed, or go kill the last enemy player. There are still 8 minutes on the clock. I wasn’t even defeated by a smart player, I was defeated because the game said ‘screw your side in particular’.

If you think it’s reasonable to get a 9 kill match with a trash team in a full uptier AND take out the ground attackers early-game, feel free to do it yourself. I’ll wait.

[C0caC0laEspuma]

Honestly, the OP lost the game for good reason, but there are certainly problems with AI ticket breeding.

[BlackberryAvar]

In my opinion the game should end when the timer runs out, or the ticket bar reaches zero because of player interaction - i.e, enough ground targets destroyed by players, or all players on one team have died / player is AFK on runway and inactive timer kicks in.

How would you feel in an arena shooter, if 10 minutes through a 15 minute game you lost in deathmatch because your side is scripted to lose?

No one would play. Yet this is the Air RB we are stuck with.

[C0caC0laEspuma]

Or spawn destructible vehicles a few minutes before the game ends just like what ARB used to be back then. At least at the time, it was not that much of a problem, since the bleeding of tickets was almost equal for both teams.

The current ARB ticket bleeding is literally worse than that of AAB…

[BlackberryAvar]

Losing to enemy players that efficiently groundpound out the match is frustrating, but fair. They put in the work. However, that’s very uncommon.

What’s far more common is that several people will groundpound a few units, die, and then the match ends seven minutes later because the AI bled down. This is not one or two maps. This is almost every map. This is not off-topic, this is directly applicable to the air RB experience at large.

@NestleKitkat

Or spawn destructible vehicles a few minutes before the game ends just like what ARB used to be back then. At least at the time, it was not that much of a problem, since the bleeding of tickets was almost equal for both teams.

The current ARB ticket bleeding is literally worse than that of AAB…

I have a clip of over 1000 tickets bleeding down in literally 10 seconds. No player input required.

The destructible vehicle groups were awesome and would be WAY better than having the AI bleed down by themselves. Just turn off AI ticket bleed and have the ground groups spawn 5 minutes before the match end, giving a chance for players to take the match into their hands. Not what we have now where it’s a literal crapshoot based on whose team yolo’d harder into the middle and then got lucky with the asymmetrical ticket bleed.

[Uncle_J_Wick]

@BlackberryAvar

Have a gander at this then.

I wasn’t defeated by a player, actually. I was defeated by the AIs, which are not player controlled. The player who did the groundpounding crashed and died while trying to land. Only a single bomber was left.

Yet, in about 2 minutes the AIs killed themselves without player interaction and drained 1000 tickets, which did not give me enough time to counteract the ticket bleed, or go kill the last enemy player. There are still 8 minutes on the clock. I wasn’t even defeated by a smart player, I was defeated because the game said ‘screw your side in particular’.

If you think it’s reasonable to get a 9 kill match with a trash team in a full uptier AND take out the ground attackers early-game, feel free to do it yourself. I’ll wait.

Everybody can watch the replay and come to his own conclusions:

Gaijin Entertainment - Single Sign On

What i saw:

• Your team of rookies went low / has not climbed enough early game and got crushed by another team of rookies
• You climbed and caught all of them low and BnZd them to death
• You scored 9 kills. You had twice the amount of fighter experience than all your victims together. You killed their best player in a 2 vs 1.
• The enemy Il-10 with 21 ground kills was able to kill a Ki-84 and a B-17 plus 1 or 2 ai planes, and crashed as he was previously damaged and pancaked. Somehow comprehensible with 16h Air RB experience.

Your claim about being defeated “screw your side in particular” is nonsense

You lost because your team sucked and due a combination of the following:

1. The enemy team killed all ai planes. Most of them early game.
2. Your team just 1 or 2
3. Whilst the Il-10 killed absolutely irrelevant ground units (arty and aaa without ticket significant or noteworthy ticket impact), his actions killed more or less all soft targets, so that the enemy ai planes had only ticket bearing targets left.
4. So he was indirectly the root cause for your ticket defeat, whilst you benefited from a low enemy team murdering your team and your ai planes.
5. The large ticket drop was the result of just ticket bearing units like pillboxes and tanks facing 4 or 5 enemy ai planes
6. And it was the same map as in the OP - Huertgen which is an old, but reworked map. I added in my last post a link to rather detailed view on old maps which have a relative high amount of ticket values for medium tanks and pillboxes.
7. The last enemy (a Ju 288) was rather smart. After 2 successful base runs he bombed on his 3rd run 2 medium tanks and sealed your fate.
8. You lost the match after around 12 minutes when the impact of the ai planes produced ~ 1.300 to 4.200 tickets.
9. There was no way to win this match with such a gap and “living” enemy ai planes. Even if you would have been able to kill them all - you would have needed a hell of medium tank kills. The problem is that these tanks are driving towards your pillboxes…and kill them…

In other words:

It is extremely sad to lose this way, but you were defeated by a rookie team that was just slightly better than your team, but due to their early game number advantage they were either by luck or actual skill able to kill the “right” targets at the “right” point in time.

@BlackberryAvar

I have a clip of over 1000 tickets bleeding down in literally 10 seconds. No player input required.

Share it. In this match this what not the case.

[English_Ham]

If i remember correctly, Gaijin increased the ticket bleed as per a large portion of the community’s request.
To reduce match times and as a way to deal with passive space climbers etc.
I never agreed with it, majority did - so Gaijin changed it. -Then here we are . . . .
This kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME here, people request stuff that i think is stupid, gaijin gives in, then a couple of months down the line, the same people asking for the changes now have issues with it and want it changed and its stupid etc etc. - of which it always was.- common theme here.

As for the match in question - 1st off - well played!
Secondly - certain maps have important objectives that everyone should look at some point in the match.
The ai may have died without human interference but that is nothing new.
In fact that may have been the reason why they died.
If it is your convoy - your objective is to protect it or allow them to cap point A.
All this time they are getting killed by Howitzers, pillboxes, IL-2’s etc etc.
If you dont kills the enemy ground units on their route, they will get picked apart by the defenses.

I think the ticket bleed should be reduced drastically (i.e revert the changes people overwhelmingly asked for that are now unhappy with it).
AND increase match times to 30-40 mins.

[BleedingUranium]

These summaries have been very much appreciated. Seems the opposing team won by playing the objective. :P

[BlitzMemes]

the enemy:

[БЕИ]

I don’t fly much but what is the air-KDR that you considered decent for Wyvern since it’s technically a CAS

[Uncle_J_Wick]

@BleedingUranium

These summaries have been very much appreciated. Seems the opposing team won by playing the objective. :P

Thx - but to be fair:

It is extremely annoying if you lose a good match and there is nothing you can do about it. Player actions on both sides are usually predictable if you see them or watch the kill feed, but even if you are fully aware of some guys low killing your tickets - you have at the same time one or 2 enemies behind you and diving on a low target is usually suicide in such cases.

Playing prop BRs is from my pov simply more than TDM, and that’s why i enjoy wt. You can create with a few smart decisions the possibility to alter the outcome of rather tight matches if you are aware of certain game mechanics on certain maps.

The problem of prop Air RB is that that gaijin does everything in their power to kill these few possibilities to have such matches - the mode was always tailored to be more a TDM mode than being objective (PvE) driven as the objectives are from holistic pov just there to enforce player interactions.

But you had the chance to win with playing a mix of PvP and PvE - but these options became very rare. And this is fully intended by gaijin.

Basically all newer map designs (except 2 new “Frontline” maps) combined with 16 vs 16 make skill rather useless, as these early game steam rolls on both sides create these 8 vs 2 or 2 vs 8 lobbies; that leaves no room for such matches.

Killing a player aircraft here and a tank there, or just dragging enemies away from your ground pounding teammates in order to ensure a ticket win is imho way more fun than playing it as a plain shooter.

I mean i lost and won hundreds of matches this way. But if i lost fair and square - nothing to complain.

Example:

You play somehow 1 vs 3 in a ticket disadvantage due to a mix of various reasons, and you then somehow manage to split them up and kill 2 of them - and the last remaining enemy (usually a rookie and/or tanker) wins the match with plain bombing of a few tanks - like in this match - before i can get there to kill him.

But i usually watch my replays in case i lost this way - and try to find ways to avoid this or just to see what could i have done better.

So after watching the linked replay i simply have to acknowledge that splitting up 2 rather high enemies was tactically seen correct (dragging a good pilot in a Yak-9M above 4 km to reduce his engine power whilst rendering a Firebrand useless due to missing climb rate) but i lost the match from a strategic perspective as the last guy in a Sakeen killed 3 tanks with SD 70 bombs (a tanker using aircraft as CAS in Ground RB) and therefore he played well as he managed to survive that long and attacked the right targets at the right point in time.

@VenomThanos

I don’t fly much but what is the air-KDR that you considered decent for Wyvern since it’s technically a CAS

Puh - i am not qualified to answer this question as I play wt for other reasons, but i see frequently guys with K/Ds of 10-15 :1 flying out Wyverns in Air RB as a pure fighter.

You might ask the fellow player @Loofah about this, a very good pilot who was doing his best to increase the BR from 4.3 to 4.7 - he is for sure able to give you a correct answer.

[Loofah]

I have absolutely dogpoop KDR in Wyvern. Below 5:1 I think. But I kill 2.7 guys per game with it while doing almost 0 ground pounding and 0 AF camping and the end result is WR around 80%.
I also got way worse recently because I don’t have time to practice :(

So IMO in Wyvern it’s more important to smack some people, drag some people down, disrupt the climb and set the enemy up for your team, than to actually survive more than 6m into the game.

It’s absolutely possible to almost never die in a Wyvern. But it requires way better head-on aim (mine is simply bad) and either liberal use of AF or tons of flying around creating separation. I’m not a fan of either.

So, K/D in Wyvern is mostly irrelevant if you follow my playstyle. It’s all about early damage. Surviving is not expected, but a welcome surprise :)

[БЕИ]

5:1 horeshet I’m currently 0:3 air kill death ratio. It’s over for me, flying definitely isn’t for me.

[Loofah]

Dude, when I’ve started Air RB I never knew what hit me. I was missing easy shots left and right and couldn’t reverse anything.
One day enlightment fell upon me and then I started spamming Fw 190 A5/U2, Ta-152H, G.55 S0, C.205 S1 (when it was actually OP) and Ki-44-II (it still is :p).

To learn to fly, use planes that are extremely OP, versatile, have decent ammo count, and it will all switch into place.
Do not try to learn the game in Bf 109, because you’ll fall into “I’m higher → I’m winning, I’m lower → I’m dead” loop.

I recommend Ki-44-II and Ki-61b (the one at 3.7 with 4 12.7mm) - especially Ki-44-II because it doesn’t outturn everything, while Ki-61b can turn with Spitfires allright.