They aren’t.
They are changed by what gaijin thinks statistics is. But not the real math.
As i said. They use the average survival time for example. They use the average on a skewed distribution. No statistician worth the name would do that. As this is explicitly stated as wrong
The average survival time applies to average joe thus game is changed according to them.
As far as I can understand it.
Nope… The average joe refers to the run of the mill person.
Average in math has a specific definition. I.e. the arithmetic mean.
But (and now this is impirtant) the mathematical average and the colloqial average are not the same thing. They are only the same on symmetric distributions.
This is why i pointed out that survival time is a skewed distribution which are by Definition not symmetric.
That’s why my Statement was that gaijin does BR by what they think statistics is but not real statistics.
The correct method to get to the Performance of the average joe is (ironically) not the average but the median.
This is why people with no clue about statistics should neither do nor judge statistics.
Don’t believe me?
Here is the australian bureau of statistics explaining it.
I get what You mean and I have to agree but I belive that Gaijin thinks they are making this game according to average Joe by that, same goes with map votes and changes to it.
If Gaijin didn’t want to balance the game according to average Joe, then we would see much different results.
Another reason skill based matchmaking will never work is because Gaijin can’t make a map if their lives depended on it because their employees have no skills whatsoever. In fact, the maps are so bad my dog could make better maps. Yeah, let’s just hide behind a corner with the engine turned off and spam USH rockets, that’s surely a large amount of skill.
They might think that and you might be right. But since gaijin screwed up massively the result cannot be the same as if they did it right. So it shouldn’t feel like they qre pandering to average joe right now. Because they don’t since they screwed up
The issue is, we don’t even have proper communication with Gaijin.
I remember last time when they asked certain people about WWM and what they think about it, they really weren’t happy about the response and stopped asking questions.
That’s why i mentioned in my post abstract thinking - looking on things from a more holistic pov is not for everyone.
Whilst i have actually some sympathy for your request and way of thinking - imho you might consider thinking about war thunder mainly as a business.
So whilst i fully agree that it creates much more fun to fight a good long term player in a Yak-3 than a rookie in a XP-50 - the reality is plain simple:
If gaijin would have found a way to determine perfectly the actual skill of a player - we would have a SBMM already implemented. We have something like that - but it is not really working.
Why? Because it is way easier to earn money with players if you can steer them properly - the mix of fun and intended drawbacks has the sole purpose to earn money.
Currently the steering of players (and their behaviour = encouraging them to spend money) is done by the MM and the BR setup. In addition the overall steering of the game (=Win rates) is using the same steering parameters.
What you fail to understand is:
The game is not designed to facilitate the rather low amount of long term players - the game is optimized to earn money with minors with access to credit cards. That’s why Ground RB players face mostly CQC maps and Air RB players have to play 16 vs 16 - both is aimed to eliminate actual skill in oder to keep the skill requirement low as this is needed to keep the game attractive for rookies.
So whilst experienced players get bored if they gained some experience and ask for changes to improve the quality of the game play - gaijin ignores those requests when these requests are suited to create entry barriers.
If you invest some time in researching demographics and behavior patterns of video game users you find out that that the overwhelming majority of young players stick to games only for a rather limited time. The phrase “until they uninstall” is dealing with the limited time frame most players stick to war thunder - and not based on motivations or anything else.
If we have a common understanding that wt is optimized to cater minors with access to credit cards it is quite easy to understand why the game is designed this way. It boils down that these minors shall be encouraged to spend the maximum amount of money in the shortest possible time before they got either bored and uninstall or get “enlightened” which usually closes their wallets.
So whilst some shooter games work pretty good with a player ranking - the player structure as it is right now is not large enough at the higher end to consider this.
A realistic goal would be a plain simple allocation of experienced players to both teams - so rookies can fight rookies and vets face vets in the same match. This would allow the rookies to learn from vets - and vets can focus on the vets in the other team.
This ridiculous demand that players shall meet players just at their performance level is similar to lowering recruiting standards within armed forces in or to allow certain minorities to be part of actual combat troops - it creates the illusion that he/she/whatever can compete whilst being just protected from actual competition.
You saw recently what happened when Minions tried to play USSS.
I share a lot of your views on certain aspects within this discussion - but imho this is just another more or less useless discussion - as performance is highly subjective.
An example - who is better performing?:
The guy killing the same 3 enemy players 5 times (leading to 15 kills) due to spawn camping whilst the rest of his team is unable to cap the sole cap point?
or
The guy within the enemy team defending the sole cap point like a lion and has just 5 kills but ensured a ticket win?
We had this discussion some time ago.
The whole topic is about balancing the game - everybody has his own view on things how balance can be achieved.
And from my pov gaijin has a totally different understanding of balancing - that’s why this discussion is interesting, but rather futile as gaijin follows their path which made them successful.
Have a good one!
Imho you simply don’t consider the goals of gaijin within their map design.
Imho they focus on “engagement optimized” maps - like most shooters. So their goal is to ensure that players are able to fight each other as easy and as fast as possible - in order to make actual skill rather useless as this allows even rookies lucky shots and kills.
So their goal is not to create maps which offers sophisticated game play which would please experienced long term players - as they earn money with rookies…
Regarding balancing:
Your team is useless because everyone only thinks about themselves, and thinks that all teammates are useless.
Do you ever bother to analyze what you write? I suggest you think more.
The “my team is useless” mentality directly contributes to everyone believing their team is useless. It is a cycle.
Player 1 says their team is useless, and refuses to help anyone/play as a team, player 2 hears about that same mentality, and sees player 1 do it ingame, leading player 2 to do it, and the cycle repeats.
Skill based matchmaking will hit those who aren’t really very good at the game let’s be honest.
Second issue. Hard to know if you are bad at the game unless you play with others in a squad or enter competitions.
Many of us can only speculate about those who win a game with ten kills to zero deaths. Do they do that every game?
Uncertainty flows through War Thunder at every level in every area. It is disorganized chaos at almost every level.
Hardly surprising few have faith in the game or real belief in their own ability when it comes to a matchmaker.
Many of us at least enjoy the game for all its faults and our faults and we are worried the matchmaker will just change the game beyond anything enjoyable.
If this idea was taken on board then it needs to be trialed just like TO would need to be trailed. I see no harm in doing that.
It’s actually messed up how much negativity and self-doubt run through the community with people who blame everything on everything else.
This ends up in confirmation bias when they get frustrated and still can’t see why they are constantly failing, and only having those who think that the issue lays with Gaijin and the game/team and how it’s all ‘designed’ to be for profit/grind echo that constantly.
And the real problem is when some stats and actions aren’t actually tracked, with those who proclaim that it’s all so easy to slap in a quantifier that doesn’t exist, yet proclaim that they can see by the stats how well someone does.
The gatekeeping and want for segregation becomes hellishly apparent when you aren’t actually blinded by your blatant demands.
I think a huge weight would be lifted off the shoulders of this game and everybody playing it if stats were private. The whole toxic, competitive mood would change overnight.
Nah, people just need to stop attacking and deriding people based on thier stats as it was long ago…
But for no reason whatsoever that rule was disregarded, and we can see the actual outcome of that naive decision in this thread, and in others around the forums where stats are being rubbed in others faces like the sacks they think they possess…
You are looking for a change in the human race there.In life you reap what you sow in terms of decency and the way society is set up to a large degree.
You have to take it back to the bare bones.
This is actually what Communism and National Socialism tried to do ,not wanting to get into politics but its about leaders feeling they are responsible for how their people act and think.Social engineering. Even this forum does little to promote good feeling ,no off topic social element to create bonding among the player base ,little to no humour.
Gaijin are just not People people at any level.
So much about how this game is set out is leading to greed,over competitiveness and self interest.It’s in the DNA.
No.
Got nothing to do with the fact of actually partaking in discussions and not being derided and attacked over your stats which aren’t relevant to the point raised.
This is just a jaded mindset to be honest because every time someone says something counter to the agreived having trouble, there’s instantly a group berating and deriding you over your point, rather than asking whether or not the player is genuinely being critical of the reason they are facing the issue.
The ‘ease’ to blame the game gets a lot of people, and their ignorance to engagement is another level.
Because you added all that in, I’m not bothering addressing this… Various members here keep feeding that self-doubt, and it’s a constant derailer in all threads. You just made it political.
I’ll be honest I have had you on ignore for months and enjoyed not seeing you around polluting the atmosphere.I thought I might make the effort to be more agreeable and fix the relationship.
No.Wasted effort on seriously damaged goods in a pool of self pity.Lets leave it and get back on topic .I’ll pop you back on ignore and we can all move on.
Not a needed comment, but it shows you are like the others, just wanting to spew your negativity to your echo chamber…
It’s the reason why there are so many moaning and agreieved players on this forum.
If anything, the self pity comes from those who constantly mention they need thier own mode to function, demanding and insinuating that the devs and such are just ignorant or ‘weak’ because they won’t bow to their demands.
And this, is a direct example of that mentality.
That would be preatty bad as can be seen on other ‘forums’ talking about WarThunder.
Anyone can make a comment about something, but not everyone opinion holds meaning. If one is not able to provide anything to back up his claims, his stats are used.
With the echo chamber for people to talk about things they have no real knowledge about, the discussions on forum would hold no meaning.
For discussion to have any meaning, things to back up claims are needed. If we are going to just accept someone ‘words’, then the discussion doesn’t have any sense.