Duh, obviously /s
1 Like
That’s why I abused FGR2 for 1000 games, uh duh /s
1 Like
yes
aam4 is the most maneuverable conventional fox3 and aim120A is one of the least maneuverable
1 Like
Went from 4th best Fox-3 to barely better than an AMRAAM while being sparrow rollable…
Not really the markings of a great missile
Not to mention you lose out on R-27ERs
27SM is better in the df btw
i didn’t expect to see derby being close to PL12 in terms of instantaneous pull. It feels very nimble in actual matches for some reason.
Fr, it’s so nimble, you can avoid it by pitching up while rolling!
compared to amraam, it is nimble. i didn’t say it is nimble as r77 nor mica.
in case it wasn’t clear, I’m talking about Derby. Not PL12.
Don’t get me wrong - there needs to be decompression, that’s a given. Frankly considering were pretty much ‘at the end game’ with only the latest generations of aircraft left the BR range should likely be either from 0-20 or 1-20, which would allow for the WWI planes people have asked for, shifting more of the planes people really like back to Rank III for daily and event stuff (like the Hellcat), decompressing every BR range that needs it (even mid-range has some issues) and still have room to put F-22’s, Su-57’s, and whatever else in.
That said - in some cases, the aircraft with ARH missiles is literally the same plane as an SARH armed one, it’s just moved up in BR and they still have to fight one another, but one can launch it’s say 6x ARH missiles from 30+ km away and then immediately run and maneuver while the SARH plane can only fire one at a time, has to keep it’s radar on target, and can not go truly defensive. It’s the same issue with SARH vs IR except that because SARH has so much more range, it smashes the IR plane even if that IR plane has all-aspect missiles. Now keep in mind that in Arcade - in-air re-arm is a thing, so that plane with 6x ARH missiles is gonna be able to fire another 6 at you in 60 seconds or less, at the higher BR’s it’s typically 48 seconds (max crew, no ace) or 40 seconds (max crew, ace). There are exactly 3 planes right now, least on the Arcade side, that have access to ARH missiles, and routinely lose to SARH - and that’s the F-14A, B, and D limited to only AIM-54’s which even after the ‘buffs’ are still absolute garbage.
And there needs to be a certain amount of compression - it’s part of why we now have the 0/3/7 system for tagging on the end of BR instead of the more freeform where you could have had things ranked at say 3.5. But some things do just straight up need to move one direction or the other - because decompression will either A - not help (F-2A ADTW at 13.0 even if Su-30’s move to 13.7 would still see them all the time) or B increase matchmaking wait times, which is also a problem. To your point about what things have and performance - the 12.3 F/A-18A tops out at either 4x AIM-7M’s and 2x AIM-9L’s or 6x AIM-9L’s and 2x AIM-7M’s, in-game, or at least the arcade side - if there’s a difference in the AIM-7M over the F it’s negligible, the 11.7 F-4J can carry 6x AIM-7F. The F/A-18 does have an edge in 1 turn maneuverability, and an all-aspect non-IRCCM missile, however the F-4 holds energy better for beyond 1 turn and carries 6x SARH missiles that are roughly comparable. So something like the F/A-18A at 12.0 instead isn’t gonna break things, or even the F-15A down at 12.3 instead of 12.7 with only 4x AIM-7’s as well, but having IRCCM access. At the very least - something like the F/A-18C early has AIM-7P’s - which are actually functionally different and are kinda like discount ARH since it has IOG and DL - so things with missiles like that at 12.7 would not be the worst either, against 12.3 American Tomcats (with AIM-54’s or SARH), or some 13.0’s with ARH like the formerly 13.0 JA-37’s, Kfir C10’s, or other 13.0 aircraft sporting 2 or 4x ARH missiles, with the more full on uptiers being against the 13.3 or 13.7 planes with 6x or more ARH missiles. A lot of the moves some of us ask for, it’s not just related to the compression issue - it’s very much that thing you say of ‘they should have some advantages’, or at the very least more - ‘they shouldn’t be completely handicapped’.
1 Like
SARH vs IR is much less oppressive than SARH vs ARH imo as SARH planes are much easier to ambush, they’re usually focused on babysitting their lock vs staying aware of their surroundings.
1 Like
Talking specifically about F14A, it get basically shredded by su30s in every factor. Even having a near 0.7 br difference, i can guarantee f14 faces su30s in 80% or even more of its matches, because of the amount of su30s always pull f14 to uptiers. They are faster, more manouverable and way more multirole than f14. Have way better missiles, fox3s that can both engage BVRs and medium range targets, meanwhile AIM-54As are basically trash at 10km- ranges, and aim7s suck at bvring. Im not wasting my time explaining the obvious power difference between a 13.3 and 12.7 aircraft, but the main points is the fact both these planes are constantly facing eachother in matches like they were the same battle rating
does a bear shit in the woods?
You can also just compare with the IRIAF
you shouldn’t have an issue providing us with a clip of you actually doing this in battle like you can reliable do against aim7s, (you can’t lol)
don’t bother posting a custom clip you took 100 tries at
also starshark isn’t reliable.
Yes you can see me even say I love them if you have only finished reading but go off bro.
Is ARH vs SARH more of an issue than SARH vs IR - yes. But that’s like arguing about getting shot in the arm vs shot in the butt. Especially when there are maps that provide no cover for IR only planes like F-5’s and the F-16A to take cover. These matches all start head to head, and I think the smallest Arcade maps with jets start at about 20km. At that point - your basically spawning in the kill range of an AIM-7F or similar missile, where as the IR missiles I think the longest range one of those can lock is still below 4km.
Put a team of F-4J’s against a team of F-16A’s, odds are that the F-4J’s smoke them with AIM-7F’s before they ever get close enough to even consider firing a 9L at anything other than trying to shoot down the missiles if they can get a lock. And the 4J can carry 6x AIM-7’s at which point the only hope that F-16 has is to literally shoot down every missile, and win a head on gun duel, or dodge the F-4’s gun and hope it can wheel around on to it’s tail before it loses energy - and in a team setup doing so before a teammate smacks it. And even if we assume it’s a map with terrain - F-16’s are gonna dive for cover, and F-4’s are gonna climb to look down and keep some range - which in Arcade is no issue because ground clutter has 0 modeling meaning radars work perfectly in look down scenarios even without filtering (or well, as well as they work cause they can be buggy). And that’s without going to larger maps where they can be locked on and fired on beyond 20km (where kills seem to be a little less assured) and maps that are basically or literally flat - I want to say it’s Sinai air map that has literally no real raised terrain so it’s all about longer range missiles.
I disagree with the current 13.7s being able to see top tier too, while they’re equipped with fox 3s most are outclassed by top tiers in 1 way or another, they should see what currently makes up the 14.3s in an uptier tops but not the 14.7s
I know, I’m was just arguing a point because I was bored :P
F-16’s can also sparrow roll. This is actually a really good thought experiment, I’m curious who would win.
If only I actually did clip that stuff.
Doesn’t change the fact I’ve had plenty of PL-12s miss me simply because I was too close or because I rolled it
Also, I dont need to clip it since we already have plenty on the patch day where people sparrow rolled them
I distinctly remember seeing a MiG-17 manage it too.
Personal experience in Arcade - F-4 usually wins. It has a pretty generous range of motion while maintaining lock, and as long as another SARH wasn’t fired at me first or a faster one wasn’t fired at me, I usually have sufficient time and range to counter the other missile and still down the F-16. Even at shorter ranges - because acceleration is basically instant on any missile that isn’t the AIM-54, it’s a Mach 4 missile vs Mach 2.5 missile, my AIM-7 is gonna hit first even if we fire at the same time, and give me a hair longer to try and react and dodge.