Naval is quite popular now. Not as big as air and ground but air rb took years to get as popular as it is now.
Yeah, i was thinking the same, Plane kills by SPAA should get a 2-3x reward multiplier.
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It’s one of a dozen things I’d change to improve SPAA/counter-CAS play. Your right, it shouldnt be the only thing done
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“popular” with bots, lmao
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First of all, you’re a king for making such a comprehensive poll. However, I feel it does not relate to me that much. When I play Soviet, my CAS is solid and I think it could be nerfed. When I play Israel, my CAS is very weak and enemy SPAA are too strong.
Some nations just have very weak SPAA and CAS, and some have very strong ones.
I’d also be highly inclined to utilize CAS in low BR battles, up to maybe 3.0. At anything above that, not so much. I’m personally not very skilled at aiming bombs so I avoid it. But where there’s CCIP, it’s already not worth it because CAS is no longer fun there - too long ranged and SPAA are too strong.
My list of changes I’d make, in my opinion, to help balance “CAS”
As a primer, in my opinion, the problem isnt inherrently with the aircraft, or necessarily even the weapons, but how they interact with the wider game and how things interact with them. This is also from the perspective of an air main, who sometimes plays GRB, as such I do often bring to bear CAS, because its what im most confident in, I also play Britain, 75% of our GRB power is in our air tree
SPAA
SPAA is the primary “anti-CAS” tool, but its pretty badly implemented. It rewards little, is rarely fun and can often just be a waste of time if there are no air targets.
Changes:
- Increase reward multiplier for air kills
- add scouting to all SPAA (including drones at top tier)
- Add a wave of AI planes from game start (low reward, but more just something to shoot at)
- Increase the amount of SPAA, especially fix the holes in many trees (Britain between 5.0-8.0 or 8.3-10.3 or even arguably 11.7 for example)
- Add signifcantly better SPAA at top tier (especially with new RWR)
CAP
Another important and often overlooked element to counter-CAS play is bringing in a fighter, but its not often done.
Main change here is too simply reduce the SP cost for a pure CAP fighter.
Spawn points
This is the main area in which balance could be best obtained.
- more dynamic SP costs. A 1000 lB bomb at 3.0 is a big deal, but less so at 11.7. So the SP costs should vary from BR to BR (I do not believe they currently do). Prehaps even adjust SP costs on a per-CAS basis, some aircraft/helis are stronger than others.
- Helis should cost more than they do currently as a base cost, maybe increase base cost to around 300-400 SP, not quite as high as planes, but higher than they are now
- Flat increase to all SP costs for all CAS vehicles (Heli and planes), big enough to prevent first spawn in a heli, but not big enough to adversly affect most vehicles (maybe 20%).
- Increase specific weapons proportionally (Mega bombs on Pe-8 or Lancaster should get quite a big bump but not all heavy bombers), and to increase SP costs based upon the number of weapons brought (4x AGMs on a heli costing less than 16 for example)
- Reduce/Cap SP gains from Scouting
Map/Mission
This is another area that I think many overlook. Would CAS be so effective if Spawn points were a lot larger/more spread out, or if everyone wasnt fighting over the same small area(s) of the map? I dont think so. Larger maps, with more dynamic missions types and a totally overhauled spawn point design would go a long way to mitigating CAS, without directly nerfing it
Additional changes
I agree, All CAS should spawn on runways, and I think all Heli spawn points need to be moved further away. But importantly I dont think CAP should runway spawn, or at least not past a BR in which guns are highly effective
(Mainly in RB) Players should “share” information with teammates (via map) about CAS locations and maybe even add AI vehicles that assist with spotting.
- Tanks should be short range, >1km
- SPAA greater range 3km ish
- Radar SPAA, long range, 10km
CAS could be cockpit only. I’d personally have no issues as I mainly play ASB, but there are inherrent issues with this, and I think it might be too hard for a lot of the playerbase and so a negative addition. Instead, maybe a reduction in Markers, removal of CCIP, or other changes might be better options than cockpit only
9 Likes
You’ll have to excuse me if it sounds like your AI idea adds needless complexity. But I like everything else.
Yeah… It would essentially play the same role as AI planes do in ARB. Something to shoot at when nothing else to shoot at and would help with stock grinding. But it would need other tweaks and changes
(or do you mean the ground spotting AI?)
For RB, perhaps, but for AB it changes things drastically . . . playing objectives has little affect on how “CAS” is used there for that . . . again, lack of consistency between modes
I don’t agree with adding AI to any mode because it’s a way for dumb shit to happen. Look at airfield AA and convoy AA in air rb, it can kill anyone who approaches. We need far better PVE modes to grind, not more AI in PVP modes.
Agreed, twas just an idea for how to give SPAA something to do when there is no CAS to shoot at early game. CAS is most dangerous in that point in time when no one has yet to spawn into SPAA because there is no CAS. Something to shoot at = less chance of no SPAA to counter CAS. But there might be other options for giving SPAA value pre-CAS
I voted, but I did not vote on the first two.
I’d play tank-only if it was in arcade battles, that’s the nuance I give.
It’d be fun doing wacky tank-only stuff in the wacky mode; Perfect for each other.
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I don’t understand the logic behind this, many battles in history have not involved air power. Why is it wacky?
There are quite a few games out now that have a focus on combined arms like Battlefield and ArmA, that have infantry-only servers, which may not be very realistic, but it’s a choice not to include vehicles in those fights.
2 Likes
2 biggest problems I experience with enemy CAS is that they are allowed to spawn directly behind my spawn and that CAS can bomb spawn locations. If enemy CAS can bomb spawn locations then as a ground unit I should be able to drop artillery onto enemy spawn locations. Only seems fair.
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But CAS is what makes the gamemode wacky in the first place
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CAS is far too cheap and far too potent. SPAA is hardly a counter at most BRs. People want CAS in ground mode because air mode is boring. They don’t want a tank only mode because they know they would lose out on the ability to cheaply farm player vehicles. Cap and J out should not earn you a heavily armed CAS loud out.
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If you would invest as much energy into researching SPAA/FIghter as you put into these threads you wouldnt mind CAS
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It is necessary that the planes be restricted until 7 minutes of departure, that they cost a little more points to take them out and that there are a maximum of three planes per side at the same time, in addition, the SPAA would have to be denerfed.
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What painfully dumb statement. Why do you assume that anyone who doesn’t like the CAS status quo doesn’t spawn both AA and anti-CAS fighters?
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Thank you for that rework of the pool.
You expose much deeper the problem of the CAS (cost, OP or not, need rebalance or not…) and the desire to play with a only tank mode.
1 Like