Limit CAS in RB for each player

[CodyBlues]

At this point I id take anything over what we currently have. I abuse CAS and I spawn anti air jets as well.

[Morvran]

Yeah, im not saying the situation is perfect. Its clear some changes are needed, but I think they should be incremental and appropriate, I see a lot of posts calling for MASSIVE nerfs or changes, just because. I just have my concerns that people group all CAS together equally, even though its not

[대한민국육군참모총장정호용]

Considering you haven’t even played other nations like Britain or Japan, I don’t know what I should suppose to say, because you just complain CAS planes are hard to shot down, even you have played nations which have the best spaa at this BR

[대한민국육군참모총장정호용]

@MotorolaCRO

Problem arises when people are forced to heavily uptier their SPAAs since there’s nothing else to take. This is a big problem and even major nations aren’t immune, which speaks volumes.

It’s quite obvious something is very wrong when people already transitioned from using “just use SPAA” argument to “just use CAP”. Even they agree that in plenty of situations SPAAs aren’t capable of doing their job effectively.

Sorry, I don’t understand what you said, Do you mean each of BR level needs SPAA or SPAA doesn’t work efficiently?

@MotorolaCRO

What’s your point here ?
Just because I can use, let’s say, 8.7 tank to destroy every top tier vehicle in the game from any angle, doesn’t mean it’s a fair engagement by any means.

I mean SPAAs from(7.0.-8.3) is good enough, for most of nations( maybe Sweden or japan need a lower BR spaa), Radar spaa VS CAS without CCIP is really unfair, especially gaijin add voice warning(T61)

@MotorolaCRO

Have you ever heard this game have exactly eight (8) nations that aren’t USSR nor China ?

Yes, need I give you these nations’ SPAA name at this BR?

[CodyBlues]

Yeah, I’ll admit I’m throwing my saltiness into the mix. I would like to see something change, maybe if a weapon is extremely effect then they could up the spawn point cost instead of our current blanket system we have now.

Like if a weapon system is obviously getting a ton of kills in a platform in ground RB then up the points to compensate.

[Morvran]

That would be a far more sensible solution that i’d 100% support. Some weapon systems are quite effective others less so. it can also change from BR to BR. (1000lb bomb on the Typhoon at Br4 or whatever it is, is quite effective. same 1000lb bomb on the Sea Harrier, far less so)

This is the biggest problem and why there is such massive conflict between those for CAS and those against it. Its the size of the changes or how they are proposed to be implemented. A little moderation goes a very long way.

On what I’d consider the main CAS thread, I did this post which covers this as well:

Revised poll on CAS in Ground Battles, would you play a tank only mode?

My list of changes I’d make, in my opinion, to help balance “CAS” As a primer, in my opinion, the problem isnt inherrently with the aircraft, or necessarily even the weapons, but how they interact with the wider game and how things interact with them. This is also from the perspective of an air main, who sometimes plays GRB, as such I do often bring to bear CAS, because its what im most confident in, I also play Britain, 75% of our GRB power is in our air tree SPAA SPAA is the primary “anti-C…

[MotorolaCRO]

@YUi_Takamura

Sorry, I don’t understand what you said, Do you mean each of BR level needs SPAA or SPAA doesn’t work efficiently?

Both actually. Here are some examples:

• German 9.3 lineup has Gepard (8.3) as best SPAA, meaning Gepard must go against 10.3 CAS
• British 7.7 lineup has Skink (5.3) as best SPAA, meaning Skink must go against 8.7 CAS
• etc.

Also, majority of IR-based SPAA have troubles dealing with any ATGM heli, let alone those that have Hellfires or Shturms.

@YUi_Takamura

I mean SPAAs from(7.0.-8.3) is good enough

I guess you haven’t used M163 then.

@YUi_Takamura

Radar spaa VS CAS without CCIP is really unfair, especially gaijin add voice warning(T61)

Guess what’s also unfair ?
Is it the fact that loads of 10.0 SPAA will struggle dealing with 9.3 helis, let alone at their BR ?

[Grimloaf]

Totally.

The loudest voices rarely represent the majority.

We never hear about the players that are fine spawning in CAS or using a helicopter to send some people back to the hangar.

We are playing a game, in which combined battles are the main focus.

Some people just can’t wrap their head around that.

Sorry if I offended any of you guys, but if it all it took was to spawn a plane or heli maybe you have bigger problems…

[Sweedish_Gunner]

Yeah complaints about power imbalances often come from those with the power…

Of course players who are successful with CAS or their primary score/dopamine comes from using CAS won’t complain. They’re the ones with all the power, they hold all the cards.

[SmørentheBustard]

“I wonder if that is a german or an american p-47, or Soviet, maybe it is british!? shit…”

[ID_Heaven]

Do you again want to destroy planes on spawn with Pantsir?

[ID_Heaven]

Already made in game. Just press sim mode button

[FalseDead]

A fix I have advocated multiple times before is make it so that planes cannot permanently kill anything but other planes.

By that I mean make respawning after being killed by aircraft free.

It means that aircraft can alter the course of battle tactically by preventing caps, removing spawn campers etc, but can’t single-handedly win the battle by themselves

[BoveyBadBoy69]

@Sweedish_Gunner

eah complaints about power imbalances often come from those with the power…

Of course players who are successful with CAS or their primary score/dopamine comes from using CAS won’t complain. They’re the ones with all the power, they hold all the cards.

This sums the entire forum up really.As usual the point is raised and the two sides form and those with a low intellect have to aggressively attack those with a differing viewpoint.Those who are a little more intelligence might try to understand where the other person is coming from.It can be that two players who argue one point in one discussion totally back each other elsewhere.

As regards to CAS hate or love I came into War Thunder for Air Battles after being put off online gaming for years by the amount of cheats. I soon got bored of Air so went to GRB as an afterthought.It was already a game with CAS in place.

I didn’t play the CAS for a long time.I love German WW2 armour so I played that.I got to about 3BR with no CAS and of course had my tank game ruined or interrupted by CAS so I came to hate it somewhat.Just a pure game spoiler. Here I was trying to learn the game which was hard enough with it all these F***ers in planes spoiling it.

Then I got a premium plane just to try it.Anger mostly ,I would return the favour or maybe see what I was missing.I was bloody useless,could not drop a bomb or hit a ground target.Then I got my first CAS kill and it was great.Yes it was also a revenge kill ,eye for an eye ,big laughs etc .I got hooked ,it was fun.I went from one kill a game to two,wow.
I never looked back from then on ,it gave me an idea from the air of how the game looked and how it was actually being played.I think CAS is important and for a team to win CAS good use is important.Stupid use of CAS does next to nothing.

So my point is I see it from both sides and I am sure both sides can come together to get something everybody is happy about especially at top tier.Just stop bitching at each other.

I don’t see that calling for a no CAS game has to be any way offensive to those who enjoy CAS.The game of GRB in WT has planes and land based units mixed,It has CAS,that is it but to desire a game free of CAS is understandable.The number of players that want a CAS free game are undeniably many.

The fear of an anti CAS movement destroying a good game is also understandable and the anger understandable.I have been there,in fact I have been angry on both sides lol.I feel somewhat silly I’ll be honest.
I imagine I would actually play a no CAS option sometimes if it were offered and I would still play the standard version.I have no idea which one I would prefer.

I think 2 air units is certainly enough and that is all I use max.

[대한민국육군참모총장정호용]

@MotorolaCRO

Both actually. Here are some examples:

• German 9.3 lineup has Gepard (8.3) as best SPAA, meaning Gepard must go against 10.3 CAS
• British 7.7 lineup has Skink (5.3) as best SPAA, meaning Skink must go against 8.7 CAS
• etc.

Also, majority of IR-based SPAA have troubles dealing with any ATGM heli, let alone those that have Hellfires or Shturms.

YUi_Takamura:

Ah, this could be happened on CAS BR, not only spaa

you can see in 7.0-7.3, that China or France still need to use TU2 or ad4 as the main users.

for Helis, considering most of helis under 10.0 don’t have good missiles or aam, it is acceptable, I don’t think a helis with 3.75km shot range is hard to kill, if you want to say MI24p, such kind of helis can’t see the target very clearly far from 4km.

By the way, there is still some options like Begleitpanzer 57,HE-VT is pretty good at this BR.

For the ground battle, the best way to deal with helis is by using fighters, the fighter’s respawn point are still lower than helis with loadout.

@MotorolaCRO

I guess you haven’t used M163 then.

M163 is still a radar aa, at least for those CAS that don’t have CCIP, it is one of the most dangerous one

@MotorolaCRO

Guess what’s also unfair ?
Is it the fact that loads of 10.0 SPAA will struggle dealing with 9.3 helis, let alone at their BR ?

Conversely, should I consider it unfair for a 10.3 helicopter to be hit by an 8.3 HEVT missile as well?

[MotorolaCRO]

@YUi_Takamura

I don’t think a helis with 3.75km shot range is hard to kill, if you want to say MI24p, such kind of helis can’t see the target very clearly far from 4km.

Use LAV-AD and lock a heli that’s 3km+ away. Tell me how it goes.

@YUi_Takamura

M163 is still a radar aa, at least for those CAS that don’t have CCIP, it is one of the most dangerous one

Radar AA which is extremely hard to get a lock on. Even when you get a lock, it doesn’t last long.

@YUi_Takamura

Conversely, should I consider it unfair for a 10.3 helicopter to be hit by an 8.3 HEVT missile as well?

No, Shturm-S is like a single vehicle out of a bunch, while literally any ATGM heli will be almost unlockable by a 10.0 IR SPAAs.

[대한민국육군참모총장정호용]

@MotorolaCRO

Use LAV-AD and lock a heli that’s 3km+ away. Tell me how it goes.

LAVAD could use aim92 locked mi24p from 3.9km, and for ah1s it is 3.5km

@MotorolaCRO

Radar AA which is extremely hard to get a lock on. Even when you get a lock, it doesn’t last long.

Just wait someone is diving in 2km, radar could still help you.

@MotorolaCRO

No, Shturm-S is like a single vehicle out of a bunch, while literally any ATGM heli will be almost unlockable by a 10.0 IR SPAAs.

Yes, we do have 506, Strela-10, 2s38, bmp2m, m247, Lvrbv701, veak40, Begleitpanzer 57, pls don’t just wanna use aim92 to shot down the helis

[MotorolaCRO]

@YUi_Takamura

LAVAD could use aim92 locked mi24p from 3.9km, and for ah1s it is 3.5km

You can’t lock from that far away.

@YUi_Takamura

Just wait someone is diving in 2km, radar could still help you.

There’s a high chance you won’t even get a radar lock, it’s that bad.

@YUi_Takamura

Yes, we do have 506, Strela-10, 2s38, bmp2m, m247, Lvrbv701, veak40, Begleitpanzer 57, pls don’t just wanna use aim92 to shot down the helis

Let me quickly J-out of my LAV when I see a heli, right ?

[대한민국육군참모총장정호용]

@MotorolaCRO

You can’t lock from that far away.

YUi_Takamura:

I can, The mi24‘engine is really hot, which means it could be locked by aim92 farther. The last time I even saw an Ozelot launch the Stinger was when my laser rangefinder showed the range was about 4km. For normal helis this range could be 3.5km like AH64 or a129

@MotorolaCRO

Let me quickly J-out of my LAV when I see a heli, right ?

why don’t you just hide yourself until it is in approach? pls don’t tell me you just stay at your respawn point and looking at the helis.

[MotorolaCRO]

@YUi_Takamura

I can, The mi24‘engine is really hot, which means it could be locked by aim92 farther. The last time I even saw an Ozelot launch the Stinger was when my laser rangefinder showed the range was about 4km. For normal helis this range could be 3.5km like AH64 or a129

Getting a lock on a heli that’s 3km+ away is like you win on a lottery. There’s a reason loads of people complain about efficiency of IR-based SPAAs against helis.

@YUi_Takamura

why don’t you just hide yourself until it is in approach? pls don’t tell me you just stay at your respawn point and looking at the helis.

What approach ?
They just stand at 3km+ of range and fire their ATGMs. Only thing you can do sit and watch, unless of course, you want to J-out and take something else that has even a remotely small chance of killing it.