As I expected it would, it is being abused to kick players from the match who didn’t deserve it. Gaijin needs to remove it.
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I’m shocked the WT community can’t be trusted with such responsibility!
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I know right! It’s almost like we hate each other and want to spite each other at every chance we get!
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Who would of thought,
Well, not Gaijin apparently.
It just shows how little the people who make these decisions play the actual game
I was actually waiting for this to be honest… I knew it would be its downfall.
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Wait a second: How can it be abused to kick someone from battle?
Before: Someone committed a TK on purpose or by accident, and got kicked.
Now: Someone commits a TK on purpose or by accident, and can be forgiven by the victim and thus may not get kicked.
Admittedly, I havent experienced such a situation since the patch, but isn’t that how it works now?
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Before it took 2 TK, which typically would auto forgive one, now it takes 1 TK and you’re gone.
Accidental TK happens a lot in jets due to missiles.
Your current system ask people who just got their game session ended prematurely to be level headed and forgive? Nah mate, someone TK me on accident, I’ll have my revenge button ready.
You just gave everyone the option to revenge kill whomever made a mistake and TK, and everyone uses that option to insta kill the guy. Accident or not doesn’t matter.
SHOCKER.
If the person isn’t forgiven, they get kicked.
So someone can choose to not accept the apology, and you end up in trouble, even if it’s clear to everyone it was an accident.
(Edit - The drive to make moderation ‘easy’ because no-one wants to go through and check on the bad players, is what the problem is for me and any moderation currently about…)
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So how does this differ from before - and get worse as it is claimed here - when all TK’s, accidental or intended, were treated as intended and were tracked and punished?
(Still, not sure about what was mentioned that now 1 (unforgiven) TK is already enough to get kicked. Will have to inquire about htat…)
I’m about to go test it. :D
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Well, for chat related issues the way we use now and always have used is to process all incoming reports manually, and react based on what can be proven or not.
For TK’s, as it does since ages, the automated system does virtually 100% of the work, and all TK or team damage incidents are tracked, compared and based on an algorithm lead to a kick from a match, or if more frequent, a game ban.
Whether and how a TK / team damage incident is detected did not change, so the repercussions if not forgiven are also still the same. Of course accidental TK’s happened before as well, but were all without exception treated as intentional TK and led to repercussions.
Players were unhappy about this, as it was unfair towards really accidental TK’s so the new system allows the victim to be graceful if he/she wants. But of course it’s not compulsory to be forgiving, even if it was an accident.
But then, if we think about this, accidents never just “do not happen”, but “are caused”, here in this context mostly by negligence of the shooter (happens to me from time to time in Sim as well, I’ll frankly admit).
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Sorry, no it doesnt, It only happens when the person firing the missile is careless or fires it in a really stupid position. There is maybe 1 in every 10000 times when it is absolutely not the person who fired its fault for that teamkill. Now that still might be an “accident”, but an accident caused by carelessness is just as bad as intent.
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Car accidents only happen when a driver is careless and doesn’t pay attention.
An “accident” is something that doesn’t happen intentional by definition. Whether it’s because of carelessness or being braindead doesn’t make it any different, it is still accidental.
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You should be punished for both.
Also not always, but yes the majority of the time, and when it is one party’s fault, they are punished for it.
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Neh I shoot a R-27ER from 100m altitude to a enemy 5000m altitude at the front and 10km apart. And the missile went like 60 degrees left in to the ground and hit the friendly who is like at 50m altitude and 4km far from me. This has been happening like 3-4 times since the update and i don’t think I’m responsible for that carelessness
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I feel as though the ‘intent’ isn’t carried by the automated detection…
Such as one time I had 2 players pin me and artillery me, and keep artillerying me every artillery they obtained…
I doubt they were picked up, but they were using that to TK and actually cause issues.
And even when it’s raised as to how this sort of action impacts my gameplay it’s generally downplayed.
With this ‘requirement’ of me having to break my gameplay, and go into the server replay to highlight that in any way that’s going to be effective, I see that as being a hinderance to me, and I don’t think anything will come of it, meanwhile the people responsible keep playing on.
(Edit - And it’s SO HARD to even bring myself to even try TK… Like, damn…)
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No.
I used to be an instructor in the Swiss Army, and we have trained with four very simple rules to prevent shooting accidents:
- Never aim at something you don’t want to hit
- Always assume your weapon is loaded and armed
- Always be sure about the consequences of your shot
- Finger always “long” (not on the trigger) unless you actually want to shoot
Any shooting accident I’ve heard of during my service and after, were a result of not just one, but all of those points being neglected by the shooter, and this negligence always led to legal repercussions.
Yes, like in a car, accidents don’t “just happen”! I might be tired, and misjudge my ability to drive. I might slip because I misjudged the road conditions. I might have a brake failure because I neglected to send my car to service regularly, or the guy maintaining my car neglected to service my car correctly.
Real accidents by things I as a driver have no control over directly or indirectly, are rare. Maybe a boulder flattening me on a mountain road…
Those points all also are valid here in the game, and underline the view that accidents do not happen, but are caused:
If I aim a missile at the space where both friends and enemies are present, I have to accept the possibility that my missile may lock onto the Blue guy instead of the red. So I don’t fire in such a situation.
I keep my fingers off my trigger if I have a friendly in sight.
I make sure that there is no friendly around that might move into a position that my shot can endanger him (this I think is the most difficult one to achieve, especialy in the game where many may chase the same target, all greedily wantong to get the kill.
I make sure I really have the target correctly identified as an enemy, and am not shooting a friend.
And - again an admission here - also ALL TK’s I have caused, without exception, were caused by me not heeding those rules enough, misidentification of the enemy being the most common cause in my case, I think, followed by daring to fire at an enemy in merged situations… So not something that “happened to me”, but something “I did”.
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Absolutely the same here, teamkills happen, and i have caused several of them over the years, and should be punished for them. How else do you get people to learn to try their utmost to avoid them in the future
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I think you are aware of the major flaw of the automated teamkill tracking and ban system (allowed amount of tks too high to get a temporary game ban) but the “improvement” with this “apology” function works only if the teamkiller uses the “apology” button.
If he does nothing - nothing happens in the match.
If you don’t believe me:
- I got teamkilled twice on 19.09.2023. Both times by the same piece of ****.
- First time right after spawn and the second time in order to deny me a kill. This b*stard changed his gamertag between 1st (16:36) and 2nd teamkill (23:40) flying a Wyvern.
In both cases the teamkiller continued playing, racking up 6 kills in the fist match and 2 more (to a total of 5) after the 2nd teamkill.
There was no “kick” from the match
The 2 replays as evidence:
Teamkill right after air spawn 6 kills in Wyvern - 19.09.- 16:36:
Teamkilled right after spawn
Teamkilled after 8:30 by the same guy 19.09. - 23:40
Teamkill in order to deny kill - griefing
So i recommend either you dump this apology stuff or you change the game so that the apology is sent out automatically.
Otherwise it is useless as only “honorable” players with actual teamkills by accident using the “apology” button might get kicked, whilst intentional teamkillers ignoring the “apology” button get away unpunished.
I mean what do you expect? Should players check all own players before spawning in - in order to identify players you blocked as you know they are teamkilllers?
I see teamkills in props more often as griefing (Wyverns kill other Wyverrns to deny a base kill or fighters teamkill own fighters in order to deny them a kill); in rarer cases as “self justice” for alleged kill steals…
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Another one that tends to happen is launching artillery on a cap that the enemy is decapping, then a friendly takes out the enemy capper, rushes cap themselves, and gets killed by your artillery. When it happens to me (as in, I’m on the receiving end of that), I shrug it off, because it was done with the intent to win this thing, and I like that competitive spirit, it usually helps the team more than the opposite. So, yeah. Of course mistakes are as serious as their consequences, but not all mistakes are born equal.
The new system is better in the sense that team kills aren’t treated the same and there is no automatism, but worse in that now one team kill can be enough to be kicked.
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