Yet, in WT, I shoot a missile at a target away from me… while missile is in the air, target dies and while he is a fireball, the game considers him dead and he has no more heat signature. Missile will automatically reacquire someone, which it would not of gone for otherwise - but having no more target, it will go for a friendly.
This isn’t real world - this is a game. This requires “game rules” and not a 25 year to life prison sentence in front of a judge and jurors because you’re trying to win a game.
Putting a 1 TK = kick mechanic in a game is kind of silly, and I can’t think of any game which has done so. It only causes that instead of having 1 unhappy guy, you now have 2. What’s the point in that?
You can’t avoid all accidental team kills in a 16vs16 missile slinging game. At the same time, you can’t remove team damage either, because that will just make the chaos worse/less controlled as people will just spam their missiles without thought. But same, 1 TK = kick is silly, this is a game. Punishment is there in terms of SL loss, maybe they could do something along the lines of a heavier fine for the first TK, and this apology system for anything subsequent.
I got a TK once because the missile autopilot whilst tracking an enemy player just happened to cross near a player flying the opposite direction and triggered the proximity fuse.
And often enough missiles will switch track onto player that fly between you and the target.
The big issue here is the high player count in matches, you can’t keep track of all that and so genuine accidents do happen where no one is really at fault
I got your points regarding missiles but the root cause for 2 unhappy guys relies clearly with the teamkiller; so the point of fast and immediate punishment is quite convincing for me - if this new “feature” would work.
From my pov this whole teamkilling discussion is an anachronism - more or less everything besides the shape and skins of vehicles in wt is fantasy, fiction or imagination. Even in case we assume that some vehicles might be modelled correctly – the history of countless open or hidden nerfs/buffs within war thunder is proving that realism is highly subjective and needs to be adjusted if they see the need to do so.
So gaijin’s argument that they want to keep teamkills in Air RB as a part of realism is actually very weak - the fellow players in tanks need arty or planes to kill friendly tanks as tanks can’t kill friendly tanks, but in Air RB realism is different to Ground RB realism as planes can kill friendly planes?
Removing team damage in ARB would be silly because everyone will just hold trigger down and launch 5000 missiles right between all friendlies… it’s like that in AB already. Abuse of friendly fire needs to simply be controlled by a system which makes sense.
I don’t play tanks, if they don’t have friendly fire, it’s odd for RB. I’m totally against that because it also leaves a little space for self moderation to get rid of people only there to harm their own team.
There’s always 2 sides for friendly fire, on one side it can be abused when enabled, on the other side, it can also be abused when disabled (ie. you can completely block friendly from firing/playing at all, or push them around a corner in tanks to get slapped by enemy and they have no way to do anything back to you). Similarly, it can be used positively when enabled too (remove some obvious person from session actively sabotaging the team), but you can also end up with a person blasting 2 people back to hangar right off the runway.
I still prefer the old system over this new one, or maybe it should be some combination of both.
I wasn’t around when TK was a thing in ground RB, but I seem to understand that it was really, really bad. Especially because some open-topped tank destroyers or SPAAs, especially tiny vehicles like M56 or ASU 57, can be killed with a single burst of machine gun fire.
Could have just made a control mechanism. Like 2TK=kick from session… but what I do find odd, is that TKs don’t carry over to next session…
You could for example make 2TK=kick but in a way that it remembers the TK for, I dunno, 3-5 sessions? Like… TK happened in session 1, nothing in session 2, 3, and another TK in session 4 and as a result I got kicked. This gives a little room for accidents, while also restricting abuse.
@Schindibee , maybe such system would be better suited for this game?
But that is exactly what the algorithm does, and does like this since the whole TK algorithm was introduced: It remembers and compares current, recent and past TK’s in connection with number of spawns to decide whether a kick is enough or the player actually gets a game ban and for what length.
Um, you had that already in WT naval. If you accidentally kill a friendly plane, you are kicked immediately out of game and into hangar lobby. No second chance, no chance to apologize. It’s been that way for years. Straight to a game over.
Report to the Staff.
That’s toxic and in no way accidentally. (imo)
That’s probably more intentionally and a short ban would probably let the offender think about what he has done wrong.
Simple as that.
But that’s the thing about context and the specific situation.
This situation above is clear, but there are many many more wich aren’t and should be looked at manually.
-if TK happned at the start od the match lets say in the first 30-60sec with the missile or gun = instant kick/ban if that happend more offten.
any other TK during the match if reported is there to judge by other players outside this game. Something like “tribunal” in CS:GO where other players can look IT up and vote if it was cheating griefing so the reported player can be punished.
And then there is more than one angry guy that got TKed to decide if punishment is needed.
Also if player vote is not enaugh it could act as stainer lets say 60% votes to punish someone so it is left for staff to decide.
A revamp of the entire spawning system seems long overdue. Part of my suggestions for improving spawning is to put a “no fire” timer on the start of every game. The mechanic is already in game, or was, as part of the “Duel” matches from the past. Everyone spawns at the same time(I would also remove the “join in progress” feature as it really does not benefit the players in anyway)and a counter begins - :15 - :20 secs, maybe even :30 depending on the mode, and no players weapons function during that time. A few of the advantages of this would be, finally an end to players just randomly shooting at their team mates every single game(it’s worse in tanks) and in Naval battles an end to spawning in and being instantly barraged by 6, 8 or 10 enemy ships as well. This gives everyone time to move out, in relative peace, get their bearings and any type of “friendly fire” after weapons go “live” would have to be considered intentional. “Spawn rage” in tank battles would be reduced a good deal, but a minimum of two spawn points for any map would help even more. Air RB take off tk’s would go down as well, making at least getting started a lot less stressful. Over complicating things and relying on the players to “self administer” themselves simply is not going to have the desired effects or end well. Simple, clear cut regulations/Rules set in place that anyone/everyone can easily understand would seem better. The automatic tk system is fair and very helpful in saving time for Game Masters as a whole. Reporting players for excessive “griefing”(which the changes I suggest might limit, or at least make more easily shown) still need to be reported via the Server Replay complaint system, so that those players are looked at more closely. Unfortunately, there are players that are intent on sabotaging the game at times . . which is too bad, but . . . world we live in
Its exactly like it was before with the added option to forgive a player. It still takes 2 teamkills to get kicked. What do you mean it doesnt work? Literally nothing has changed.
You know what i think. Gajijn whole approach with letting the community having a say in every little decision doesnt always make sense. First of all, being a dev for War thunder must be soul crushing when everything you do i met with such extreme negativity. Second, it leads to a fragmented game. Some parts get a lot of attention and other are entirely neglected. Every new feature, change or balance decision is one part of a bigger whole which isnt always taken into consideration if you look at War thunder. Too many chefs in the kitchen sorta deal you know. Third, everything is subjetive. What feedback do you listen to? Whos right and whos wrong? And lastly, people dont always know what they want.
Although i like you pov - imho the reporting of intentional team kills via server replay is borderline useless. GMs openly admit that they do not interfere with intentional team killers in order to keep the “auto-tracking/ban” system functional. You can read this in the old forum
I mean the content of this thread mainly repeats the same arguments as in the 30 page long pinned “TK policy” thread.
And from my pov intentional teamkills are happening quite often in prop tier Air RB matches at BRs 3.7/4.0. Even if there are just 1 or 2 teamkills it prevents a lot players from climbing and therefore influence the early phase of those matches.
There are a lot of reckless Pe-8 players in Ground RB killing almost their whole team when dropping FAB 5.000s. Other players described already reckless usage of arty strikes.
As i wrote earlier - i got your point with missiles, but Air RB is more than “Missile thunder” - in props it would be simply great to have a spawn protection and to disable friendly fire if there is no enemy within 1.5 km. This would help a lot.
For jet tiers - i watch a lot of vids of cc’s on yt and server replays to get the points, but as long as missiles have their own will what target they are going for, i can’t offer a solution.
I mean this “self moderation” works in prop tiers more than often so that the first team killer gets team killed to punish him - but the avenger then gets team killed by the squad mate of the initial team killer, so self moderation requires mature players and decisions, both very rare in prop Air RB…