But this should be taken into account. Should not be ignored. Otherwise, A-10 should be same BR as F-16A
And the SU-27/MIG-29s are inferior in literally every way to western counterparts in sim right now. literally, EVERY WAY.
RADAR
FLIGHT MODEL
ENERGY RETENTION
ACCELERATION
MISSILES
TURN CAPABILITY
The only thing Red has over Blue: “Mom look at me i can do funi cobra huehuehue”
I’m just comparing missile to missile. I’m not talking about balance. Like as in R-27ER vs AIM-7F. AGAIN IM JUST COMPARING MISSILE TO MISSILE. I feel like a broken record.
And my thought started with that. An AIM-9L launched from A-10 will not have same range as 9L from F-16 at mach 1.4
Raw properties are not everything, everything is linked. I know you never meant that, just saying
Ok we both understand then. I know that the platform matters, hence why I never made an opinion on the balancing aspect.
I recommend everyone watch this video, it explains sim situation extremely well.
I see what you mean with this picture. Here it seems that the ER might indeed be faster, but what is missing is the speed and height at which every one of these missiles was launched. So it might have been, for example, faster than an amraam in this instance but not in others. And, of course, not being a fox 3 means it must be guided till impact, so an amraam would still be much more effective
I see, it’s similar to this initial topic, but more focused in Air2Air instead of Air2Ground … will Gaijin make something ? Will they make it worst ?
-MiG-29 9-13 12.7 vs F-16A ADF 13.0 - R-27ER
-MiG-29G 13.0 vs F-16A ADF 13.0 - R-73 and R-27ER, makes F-16A ADF look like a joke in terms of missiles, it also has TWS and HMS which F16 doesn’t have, it’s a German plane, but still
-MiG-29SMT 13.3 vs F-16C 13.7 - doesn’t really make a difference in sim with current brackets, but still
-MiG-23ML/MLD 11.7 vs F4J 12.0 - if anything the MiG-23 is F4J counterpart, not F4E counterpart
Your statement only applies to late MiG-21s.
There is a MiG-21S, but it’s a premium. I’ve been really enjoying it with 4 R-3Rs. They could add it to the tech tree too.
Yeah I agree, this thing sitting at 13.0 is the same cancer as A-10s and SU-25s with all aspect missiles against flareless planes. Unfortunately for some reason Gaijin really wants attackers to be competitive in air to air combat.
6 R-27ERs, that’s a BIG reason.
Lmao
The real issue is that if both teams do nothing, Blue team will always win, since the ticket bleed is faster for the Red team. The Blue team will also always have more people, unless the Red team is blatantly OP. NATO planes are just more popular, especially U.S. planes.
With its archaic avionics, this is not the case. Even in real life, the American pilots who flew it said that the MiG-23 was nothing compared to the phantom. Both in terms of avionics and flight characteristics.
At the moment, the French F1C, which was lucky enough to be on the same level with him, simply does not leave him a chance to win. Yesterday I made 12:0 in an hour flying on the mirage. It is foolish to deny the problems of the red team. The main problem now is that a smart person will not go to play for the Reds.
Taiwanese F-16 on REDFOR is crazeee not gonna lie,
Imagine dying for the enemy-not-enemy guy because it’s a export vehicle.
It does feature the ROCAF emblem but I doubt it will be visible during a match, besides of that not a single identification but probably the radar, I’m not much for ASB.
We need to add more MiG-21 modifications to the USSR development branch.
Finally, we need to fix all the known bugs of the confrontation mode.
I demand buff to nato tanks in exchange.
I think you and others are grossly overestimating how much of an advantage r27er truly are. If they were so amazing, red team wouldnt have an average of 30% winrate.
When you play it’s different compared to how things look on paper. On paper, in a 1v1 scenario were both players know each other s position, r27er is superior.
In practice, in a real match, the advantage goes to the first who spots his opponent on radar and can put pressure on him.
For example, if an f16 fires an aim7 you cannot just ignore the rwr, find the f16 (wasting a lot of time doing it) and fire your r17 back, because by the time you do all these things you’re already dead.
In general, avionics, radar and awareness are more important than a faster missile, and it shows whenever you compare victory %
Are r27er better missiles overall? Yes
But are blue team avionics and flight models better overall? Also yes. And the latter is more impacting
You need to put things into perspective. Again, 30% winrate means that despite how things look on paper, in practice they are different. And something like the Su-27 should absolutely go down 0.3 in br because it’s the only red plane that has some capability to put pressure on blue planes.
Red Teams are always smaller in Sim because people on red team quit for no reason or only the reason that they dont know how to use their aircraft and weaponry (seriously the amount if Mig-29SMT and Su-27SM players i’ve talked to that didnt know higher altitude and higher speed means more effective R-77’s is ridiculous). So a majority of the time the Blue’s only outnumber by 1-2 at first but them everyone quits leading to these 3-1 ratio matches that puts red’s in a horrible spot. Its not a fault of the game developers, rather the players
While i would like to see an Su-27 down into 13.0 your thing on no flares…is sort of invalid. Red’s typically dont go against all-aspect missiles until the F-14B, A-10, and A-6. The only other thing thats all aspect on Blue Team is other Mig’s like the British Mig-21 that has R-73’s. Meanwhile almost all the time Red’s have all-aspect missiles that are decent. And then to get to rear-aspect missiles, until the Aim-9J and Aim-9H you can just turn ti evade those missiles or outrun them such as the Aim-9E. Not even the F-14A gets all aspect missiles, just Aim-9H and Aim-9G which have to be deployed with a bit of range to be effective due to only pulling 20g. So up until you get your flares the only IR missile you’re fighting are not manuverable missiles, can easily be outrun, and take one hard turn then that missile misses. You get your flares roughly when the more manuverable missiles come into play such as the Aim-9J.
3)while yes your bombers arent necessarily as good they aren’t aomething to scoff at. The Su-25’s can easily take out a base or two which happens to be the same for F-111 and F-4. Also if you want better bombing why not try a multirole aircraft with Guided Bombs such as the Mig-29, because thats whats happened in top tier a lot is a bunch of F-16C’s with a multirole loadout of bombs/rockets with 4 Aim-120’s. You just need to know whats best for your aircraft to make them effective.
So What’s actually needed?
What’s needed is for the Red Team to finally realize their aircraft and weaponry. Still only a select few actually use the R-27ET which is one of the deadlier missiles in the game, so many complain about the R-77 barely hitting a target at 7nm when that same player sits in the deck causing the most drag for their R-77 effectively making the missile useless, so many don’t know how to even go for a guns only dogfight with the Mig-29 nor Su-27 rather just bleed all their speed un one turn allowing for somewhat smart F-16 and F-15 players get an easy gun kill or Aim-9M on them. Heck i bet of iwere to say “The Mig-29SMT rates only .1-.3 seconds slower than the F-16C” that most Red’s would respond with “the aircraft bleeds speed too much” or “then you havent played the Mig-29SMT cause it has the worst turn rate” when nearly no Mig-29 player actually flies at 611-833 km/h (or 330-450kn) which is where that Mig-29 SMT turns like a dream.
Right now Red’s will complain about anything. They were complaining about Aim-9M’s when the R-27Ear and R-27ET were dominant and said that Americans had it better when if you would look at anyone with top tier America and top tier Russia the Russian aircraft would have 2x the k/d of the American Aircraft. Red’s have never known the abilities of their aircraft and tbh most only want for them to be the most OP they can be, asking for R-77-1 and some saying that the Americans should still only have Aim-120A’s if that R-77-1 was introduced.
So again, what’s needed?
They need to recognize the lethality they can hold and the threat they can pose. Not many understand how to best employ the R-73, some are still ignorant to how to defeat a Fox-3, some don’t know how to make the R-77 at its most lethal, a good amount dont know how deadly the R-27ET can be, and some don’t even know basic BFM tactics. These are things that are needed. They need to understand these things and they’d easily get good games even outnumbered.
So your point is basically “red skill issue”. But skill issue is not an issue when it is extended to an entire population, for statistical reasons. If red keeps losing there is a reason and that reason is not skill, because, again, we re not talking about one person, we re talking about a big number of players.
This is NOT true. Statistically not true. The same exact thing would happen to Blue team if blue team aircrafts were on average worse than their counterpart. When talking populations skill is NOT the issue. That only works on a personal level.
Red team players quit because losing is frustrating, and the more people quit/do not research red tree the more red team keeps losing, thus forwarding the cycle. People quitting is the result of an unbalanced game. Imagine making the same argument about some other game. Imagine a developer blaming the players quitting his game because they arent “skilled enough” as a whole instead of recognizing tha the game is not fair. Do you see that it doesnt make sense, when put into perspective? This cannot be the cause.
About all aspect missile and missiles in general at lower br: blue team gets access to high performing missiles way before red team does. If I remember correctly the earliest red team plane with r60 sits at 10.7, and it is the su-17 with no flares. Meanwhile, blue team has access to many planes with very good missiles (aim9g, aim9d, aim9c) already from 9.7 to 10.3
Red team doesnt have any fighter that has bot flares and good missiles before 11.0. And this cannot be contested, this is a real problem that makes it way harder for red to win at those BR.
Bombers in red team are not even remotely comparable to bombers in blue. First let s begin by saying that you can effectively bomb only at BR where radars and pd radars are not common. So stuff like mig29 cnanot be used to bomb, you’re gonna be intercepted by someone as you try. At lower BR red team, again, has very few stuff that can bomb and those planes usually lack radar, have very bad rwr and in general have smaller loads compared to blue. Red doesnt have any real multirole fighter that can bomb AND still carry a full air to air loadout.
Bombing with a su-25 is a terrible idea because of ho slow it is.
About a-10 vs r-73, honeslty, it would never be an issue. R73 is quite sensitive to flares already and the a-10 has a very small heath signature. They would have no problem flaring an r-73. And again, you’re saying nothing about the reverse that is happening RIGHT NOW where a-10 can fire aim9-l to flareless red planes that cannot defend themselves.
Honeslty you are completely misinformed, and, I will check later, I suspect you never played Red. Red was never dominant in jet fighting, again, 30% winrate at best. You dont know what you’re talking about and most of the discussion wasnt even about top tier, where, btw, aim-120 is the best missile. Top tier red suffers because it lacks players, and they lack players because the grind is too unfair at lower BR.
I’m quite tired of answering people that do not play red, have 0 experience in the game and yet they talk. If you answer here, please first make sure you play both sides, otherwise your opinion is worth ZERO.
Check my profile. I fly everything. I know what I’m talking about. You dont.
ML(D) can’t even use PD (mti) mode above 1500 meter. Even when looking down. And below 1500 meter, it can’t use it when looking up. It’s not equal to F-4J anymore
Honestky, really well said
Show statistics or a source confirming such statements, otherwise it’s all your empty fantasies.
I AM the history and statistics of WT SB
And if you looking for more ‘Objective’ evidence, please search a little bit in old-forum air SB tab for “SB grind, AFK glitch, etc”.
Things you don’t recognize never excuses your offend, kid.
So here’s where skill issue does matter. Okay do both you and I agree that people quit cause they lose right? Well they lose because they don’t have the basic skill of firing a missile correctly, ir evading an enemy missile, or how to bfm. They dont have these skills. This even happened when the Aim-9M was introduced. The Aim-9M is a deadly missile however preflare that sucker and it cant even be fired. However no matter how many people lend that piece of advice Red’s stay arrogant and not preflaring leading to them dying over and over at range from the Aim-9M if their R-27ER didnt hit first. Well since they didn’t have the skill of knowing when and how to preflare they ended up quitting and only until the F-15A and Su-27 did they come back for missile busses. Same in regard now. Again, idk how many times I’ve seen in chat someone conplaining an R-77 is only effective up to 7nm when the entire game Blue’s are the only ones 20k ft or higher. Yeah no wonder their missiles arent as effective, they hinder themselves to do it.
And as far as game developers saying get gud, i mean like at other realistic Sim’s and even just competitive games. If you want to fight well you have to learn necessary skills to win that fight.
Now to missiles. You get R-60 in 9.3 with the Yak-38M which is an all-aspect 30g missile. America gets…Aim-9B a rear-aspect 10g missile. America doesn’t get all-aspect missile until 10.7 with only attackers getting them. You get IRCCM missiles at 11.7 with Su-25’s and America gets IRCCM at 13.0 only available to fighters. So in all regards you get the better missiles. Heck even the missiles in those lower tiers where you dont have flares most are easy to evade (Aim-9B or Aim-9E) or have to be fired at range (Aim-9G and Aim-9H which only pull 20g or Aim-9D which pulls only 18g). So even here you have the upper hand, Red’s are just arrogant in trying to evade these missiles.
Now to bombing. I never said that the Red’s had it close or better. In fact i said they might not have it as close. However the Red’s bombing isnt something to scoff at is what i said. In fact i think i even said i support better Air-Ground weaponry. Now lets get the Mig-29 because ya did make me laugh with that one. You can carry a Drop Tank, x2 KAB-500Kr-E, x4 R-77. Is it as good as the F-16? No, but yiu hold the same A-A Weaponry as the F-16 if the F-16 went heavy (for example the F-16 needs to use 2 missiles slots for x4 GBU-24 in order to take out just one bombing target). So the loadout i just gave ya made ya multi-role. And guess what else? F-16C’s have all started doing this. They’ve started carrying a multi-role loadout cause they can drop bombs and attack at the same time as evading, I’m one of those people. You can do the same in the Mig-29 SMT (if not better since it seems you have TV guided which allows you to evade better while F-16C needs to give constant laser guidance however the F-16C holds more explosive power and better missiles). So bombing in higher tiers, very doable you just need to learn the skills to do it.
Now to the A-10 and R-73 comment. I was more putting that up as “look you get better stuff yet say you don’t”. And as much as yeah you might not be wrong on not having flares and chaff…every aircraft you have in that same tier can outrun the missile. Especially on an A-10 that gives the missile a very slow start-up speed. Meanwhile the R-73 brought up close even if flarable is more lethal than an even more easily flared 9L while being more manuverable. Honestly trying to compare the 9L and R-73 isn’t even close the R-73 wins.
So all this i got from just hopping on and looked at all the aircrafts going into lower tier jets to fact check both of us, and at every single corner i have proved you wrong or mistaken. And i actually do play Red at times, while it might be with a Mig-23 honestly the thing keeping me from playing the game is that to me the Mig-23 is boring. Not cause i get killed in it but because its too easy to get kills in it and its not a dogfighter at all which just isn’t my playstyle. Which is really the only reason I’m not up to my second favorite aircraft, the Mig-29.
So even though sure i don’t play a lot of Red, it’s very easy to see the mistakes made by Red’s. I dont need to be in the aircraft to know that sitting on the deck makes the R-77’s range even worse, i don’t need to be in the aircraft to know that Red’s employed R-73’s incorrectly, i don’t need to be in the aircraft when i personally teach other players how to rate the Mig-29 correctly, i don’t need to be in the aircraft to see that Red Team has a lot of skill issues. I mean just yesterday there was a guy flying an Su-27SM on the other team, saw he had 0 kills and 8 deaths, sent him a prty inv, told him the logistics of his aircraft and missiles and how they interact with my aircraft and missiles and he immediately got 4 or 5 kills while only suffering 2 more deaths. That right there shows i don’t need to be in the aircraft to see the problems players are having.
In the end Red’s have a massive skill issue. Now i help as many as i can and are willing to learn and typically they immediately start having much better games, but that doesn’t change the arrogant ones that refuse to learn, die, them complain when they don’t know what they’re talking about.