Planned Battle Rating Changes (August 2026)

[Morvran]

@Wyvern120

I don’t think they’re equal in performance. I think I said as much. Or at least I hope I did. But the performance difference isn’t as much a problem with how ARB is currently played. The lower range doesn’t mean much when the vast majority of sparrow launches occur within 10km of the target, if not less. Anything more, and anyone with reasonable experience could dodge or multipath it.

Even fired at sub 10km, the Aim-7Fs retain significantly more energy, meaning they have a better time to target.

F-4S vs FGR2, the F-4S can fire first, from further away and still hit first.

@Wyvern120

HMD or not doesn’t matter when everyone is headon-ing at Mach “I don’t care if I live”.15 while effectively kissing squirrels at the treetops

I have never once mentioned the HMD because I agree. Though I will mention the Agile Eagle the F-4S has.

@Wyvern120

Turning performance stops mattering when missiles start doing circus tricks to hit you. For most people playing, the British Phantoms are good enough.

Right?

So the F-4J, F-4S, let alone the Tornado F3, all of which have straight up better missiles… will naturally do better then?

@KhorneFlakez1337

So all this boils down to is that you want to use the Phantom for something that it is bad at in-game

It all boils down with the fact that the FGR2 gets NOTABLY better SARH missiles and can run 6 of them at a BR where IR missiles, let alone rear-aspect IR missiels are basically worthless to carry.

@KhorneFlakez1337

If someone jousts with me and they launch a Sparrow at 16km instead of as late as possible, why would I keep jousting with them?

Right? So you are now forced defensive? There are 2 ways to win a joust

1. Kill the target before they can kill you
2. force them into a defensive posture where you then have the advantage with guns or SRAAMs

If the Aim-7F has forced you to turn cold to defend, because you owuld loose the joust otherwise… then you have still won that joust.

@KhorneFlakez1337

The extra range of the AIM-7F is useless when the optimal launch window is between 3 and 8km

Just ignoring the fact that they have notably better kinematic performance at these ranges too?

@KhorneFlakez1337

That’s not even true lmao, the British TT Phantoms have better K/Ds than the US F-4J and F-4S

June 2026:

F-4S K/D: 0.99 K/S 0.83
FGR2 K/D: 0.93 K/S: 0.77
F4J(US) K/D: 0.93 K/S: 0.79
FG1 K/D: 0.89 K/S: 0.73
F4JUNK K/D: 0.81 K/S: 0.68

In May F-4S is higher than the FGR2 and nearly identical to the FG1
In April, F-4S is higher than the FG1 and the F-4J is higher than the FGR2.

Consistantly at the moment the F-4S is better or at worse, on-par, which, given just how bad F-4S players are… let alone US premium players… shows just how badly the UK Phantoms are actually performing, because if they were as good as you say, they would be notably higher than the historically, very poor performing US premiums.

[Real_K_Soze]

Mode: Air RB
Vehicle: Westland Whirlwind (TT and premium)
Recommendation: BR 3.7 (keep BR but give it an interceptor spawn)
Reasoning:

British twin engine day fighters have as only nation in wt an unfair advantage vs all other twin engine fighters at Rank III or higher as those have either an interceptor or an strike aircraft air spawn at 1km - but Britain has somehow 6 (!!!) twin engine day fighters with a 2 km air spawn.

This spawn advantage makes them on average way more effective than other “heavy fighters”.

Most people don’t know that currently just these 6 British twin engine day fighters have an Air Superiority fighter role and an air spawn at 2 km altitude:

• Westland Welkin at BR 4.7
• Whirlwind + premium Whirlwind at BR 3.7
• Hornet Mk I (premium) + Hornet Mk III at BR 6.0
• Mosquito F.Mk. II (Norway) at BR 3.7

Across all other TTs the 1 km higher (compared to interceptor spawn) air superiority fighter spawn aircraft are either night fighters (Do 217s, Mosquito NF Mk II / J 30 and 2 P-61s) or 2 low BR 2.3 Potez aircraft (630/633) accompanied by the BR 1.7 (all Air RB) Do 17 Z-1.

Air Defence fighter | Game roles | War Thunder Wiki

There is zero necessity for a special rule for British twin engine fighters.

[KhorneFlakez1337]

Are you looking at just one month?

[Morvran]

F-4S is higher in 3/4 of the past months, and only barely lower in the 1 month it isnt the highest of the 5, though then its only the FG1 and not the more commonly played FGR2 that is lower than the F-4S.

Given the usual difference in quality between the US players and UK players at this point in the grind… That says a LOT about how poorly the UK F-4s are actually doing at the moment. Let alone the difference between a TT player and a premium player.

(Just gunna throw it out there that the Tornado ADVs are ahead by a wide margin, the aircraft where the only thing it can do and do well is BVR and not WVR)

[Real_K_Soze]

Mode: Air RB
Vehicle: Hornet Mk I (premium)
Recommendation: BR 6.0 (keep BR but give it an interceptor spawn)
Reasoning:

British twin engine day fighters have as only nation in wt an unfair advantage vs all other twin engine fighters at Rank III or higher as those have either an interceptor or an strike aircraft air spawn at 1km - but Britain has somehow 6 (!!!) twin engine day fighters with a 2 km air spawn.

This spawn advantage makes them on average way more effective than other “heavy fighters”.

Most people don’t know that currently just these 6 British twin engine day fighters have an Air Superiority fighter role and an air spawn at 2 km altitude:

• Westland Welkin at BR 4.7
• Whirlwind + premium Whirlwind at BR 3.7
• Hornet Mk I (premium) + Hornet Mk III at BR 6.0
• Mosquito F.Mk. II (Norway) at BR 3.7

Across all other TTs the 1 km higher (compared to interceptor spawn) air superiority fighter spawn aircraft are either night fighters (Do 217s, Mosquito NF Mk II / J 30 and 2 P-61s) or 2 low BR 2.3 Potez aircraft (630/633) accompanied by the BR 1.7 (all Air RB) Do 17 Z-1.

Air Defence fighter | Game roles | War Thunder Wiki

There is zero necessity for a special rule for British twin engine fighters.

[Real_K_Soze]

Mode: Air RB
Vehicle: Hornet Mk III
Recommendation: BR 6.0 (keep BR but give it an interceptor spawn)
Reasoning:

British twin engine day fighters have as only nation in wt an unfair advantage vs all other twin engine fighters at Rank III or higher as those have either an interceptor or an strike aircraft air spawn at 1km - but Britain has somehow 6 (!!!) twin engine day fighters with a 2 km air spawn.

This spawn advantage makes them on average way more effective than other “heavy fighters”.

Most people don’t know that currently just these 6 British twin engine day fighters have an Air Superiority fighter role and an air spawn at 2 km altitude:

• Westland Welkin at BR 4.7
• Whirlwind + premium Whirlwind at BR 3.7
• Hornet Mk I (premium) + Hornet Mk III at BR 6.0
• Mosquito F.Mk. II (Norway) at BR 3.7

Across all other TTs the 1 km higher (compared to interceptor spawn) air superiority fighter spawn aircraft are either night fighters (Do 217s, Mosquito NF Mk II / J 30 and 2 P-61s) or 2 low BR 2.3 Potez aircraft (630/633) accompanied by the BR 1.7 (all Air RB) Do 17 Z-1.

Air Defence fighter | Game roles | War Thunder Wiki

There is zero necessity for a special rule for British twin engine fighters.

[xxLouisRamPagexx]

How about you raise the Max br to 15.0 (or higher) for both air and ground to further reduce Compression.
Thats what war thunder needs.

[PercussionCap]

@Morvran_

Skyflash DF is a significant downgrade over the Aim-7F the other F-4s carry at 12.0

the other F-4s have J79s and not Speys

[Morvran]

Overall, I think flames argument on this is the most solid:

Planned Battle Rating Changes (August 2026)

Could the developers consider adding AIM-9L / Skyflah SuperTEMP to just the Phantom FGR.2, with a corresponding BR increase? It seems like there are quite a few benefits to this approach, and not really any downsides I can think of: It would meaningfully differentiate the Phantom FG.1 and FGR.2, which at present are essentially different from each other only in cosmetics. At present if you have a Phantom FGR.2 there’s no reason to play the FG.1, and vice versa. It would provide people with th…

[KhorneFlakez1337]

The F-4S also has more than 10x more matches played in the last 4 months

Nobody bothers with the FG.1 and FGR.2 since the Tornado F.3 is the better plane (better than both the US and UK Phantoms)

If anything this shows that the Tornado F.3 should have a higher BR, not that the UK Phantoms should have a lower one.

[Morvran]

Right?

And?

Slightly better low alt top speed and acceleration in exchange for straight up half the missile performance?

and if you fly at any alt other than tree-top level. There is no difference in performance at all.

[KhorneFlakez1337]

That is a way better approach than to reduce the BRs

[Morvran]

Exactly?

Which generally would result in a lower overall performance.

The F-4S has:

• American Players
• Premium Players
• Greater number of players

and is still usually performing better than the UK F-4s.

@KhorneFlakez1337

If anything this shows that the Tornado F.3 should have a higher BR, not that the UK Phantoms should have a lower one.

and the moment they fix BOL and add Phimat, I’ll be advocating for a BR increase. (Combat thrust like the Mig-29KR has would be quite handy too)

[Morvran]

For the record… bar the F-4JUNK, which straight up is NOT a 12.0 worthy aircraft at the moment… My main advocacy would be adding Skyflash STs to all 3.

FGR2 should then also get 9Ls.

FG1 shouldnt be at the same BR as the F-4S, but also probably shouldnt be at 11.7 (though I do consider it a direct equivalent to the Mig-23MLD, so that should be at 12.0 or the FG1 should be at 11.7)

F-4JUNK is straight up an 11.7 worthy aircraft. Stronger than the Viggen C, but weaker than anything at 12.0. Skyflash STs and napalm would at least put it vaguely on par with the F4JUS

[SinisterIsRandom]

@Stona_WT

We plan to remove the Japanese Ho-Ri SPGs (both variants) from the Japanese research tree and from sale.

The Ho-Ri Production will be removed from the research tree, just as the Panther II and Flakpanzer 341 were previously removed. Players who own it or have put research points into it will keep it. Similarly, the premium Ho-Ri Prototype will no longer be available for purchase, but will remain in the possession of those who have purchased it already. We don’t have plans to make them available for research or purchase again in the future.

These vehicles were added quite early on in the Japanese research tree to fill gaps and ensure smoother progression. Their accuracy has long been debated, and since their inclusion, numerous new vehicles have been added to the research tree around the Battle Ratings the Ho-Ri once filled. New information on the Ho-Ri has since emerged following its inclusion in the game, and it can now be confidently concluded that both vehicles were created based on questionable technical research and contain inaccuracies even as variants of unrealized designs. This does not diminish their importance to the game; they are part of the history of the Japanese research tree, filled their role well, and we can at least say that their implementation was an interesting experience. However, the time has indeed come to retire these controversial vehicles.

After the final version of the Battle Rating changes goes into effect, we plan to have a one-week discount for the Ho-Ri Prototype and remove both vehicles on the 1st of September. We will share more details later, including right in the client in the tech tree. Make sure to check the Japanese tech tree from time to time to make sure you don’t miss it!

So, in simple words: We are removing 2 vehicles based on historical evidence of their incomplete existence due to high demand to be removed, simply because no one is capable of effectively destroying them at their battle ranking when it starts rushing, while also not providing any actual proper replacements for such vehicles cause we cannot bother to do so.

Also, FOMO stands for “Fear of Missing Out”
It’s not hard to look up the definition, since you clearly do not know what it actually is. This occurred when you folks removed the reserve French Tanks, Panther II, 10.5, and many other vehicles. People had a fear of missing out and started sweating over this game to collect them. Which still occurs when the Maus appears.

If you are going to remove them, how about replacing them with all 3 of their historical counterparts? Instead of pretty much telling every Japanese Main who is researching it, “Boo hoo”.

In terms of some CC’s, not directly. Major L in this case, cause this is particularly what pissed off the Japanese mains when you folks tried to remove the Ha-Go for simply being “bad”. When it isn’t. I’m probably going to be timed out for this entire essay. I’m prob going to be timeout but I stand by what I said. Poor decision, Gaijin, poor decision.

[Snake9889]

Vehicle: AH-1E (Japan)
Gamemode: Ground Realistic
BR Change: 9.3 —> 9.0
Reason: There’s no reason why this helicopter should have so high BR. It has no flares, no chaff, no IRCM, no TV-sight. Its ATGMs also have inferior range to most of its counterparts, as they aren’t tandem. The only thing the helicopter does have is a ballistic computer, but given the sheer number of SPAAs and autocannons on these BRs, this isn’t its biggest advantage.

[Wyvern120]

@Morvran_

Even fired at sub 10km, the Aim-7Fs retain significantly more energy, meaning they have a better time to target.

F-4S vs FGR2, the F-4S can fire first, from further away and still hit first.

This is very true.

@Morvran_

Though I will mention the Agile Eagle the F-4S has.

Which will allow you to slightly better manuever, but almost never enough to matter.

@Morvran_

Right?

So the F-4J, F-4S, let alone the Tornado F3, all of which have straight up better missiles… will naturally do better then?

There are many, MANY things, that determine whether a missile or platform will do better in a scenario. Narrowing it down to “X has better missiles, so therefore X is better” ignores a good bit of play, strategy, launch parameters, etc. Also, note that the SuperTEMP only has better range and speed. Turning performance and even guidance delay are the same. Both will do circus tricks, one does them a bit further away.

@Morvran_

It all boils down with the fact that the FGR2 gets NOTABLY better SARH missiles and can run 6 of them at a BR where IR missiles, let alone rear-aspect IR missiels are basically worthless to carry.

That is a bit hard to agree with, at least in my experience. IR missiles are great for catching the blissfully unaware…which is a solid chunck of the playerbase, especially launched without a lock. I always carry them, F-4J/S or FG.1/FGR.2

@Morvran_

Just ignoring the fact that they have notably better kinematic performance at these ranges too?

KhorneFlakez1337:

Again, NO ONE is disagreeing with you on this front. The AIM-7F IS the better missile. We all know that. But the Skyflash does well enough given how most matches play out. You have to think of it from the average player perspective. Not just yours, or mine. In the average game, these differences just don’t play out that often. I KNOW about these difference, but they hardly ever make or break the match.

[John_Do2002]

People’s personal experience with skyflashes are interesting and all, but I must remind everyone Skyflash DF is literally just an aim-7e2 (also available at 11.3 F-4E) with a different prox fuze.

[Morvran]

@Wyvern120

There are many, MANY things, that determine whether a missile or platform will do better in a scenario. Narrowing it down to “X has better missiles, so therefore X is better” ignores a good bit of play, strategy, launch parameters, etc.

I am aware of this, but I dont really see the relevancy, if we are talking about 2 identical aircraft, firing under near enough identical conditions, then missile performance does matter greatly.

If at low alt, the FGR2 might have a marginally higher top speed, but not enough to negate the missile difference more than a tiny amount. At higher alts, then there is no difference in launch conditions, because the spey engines are only better at low alts.

@Wyvern120

Also, note that the SuperTEMP only has better range and speed. Turning performance and even guidance delay are the same. Both will do circus tricks, one does them a bit further away.

Right?

So is a notable upgrade?

@Wyvern120

That is a bit hard to agree with, at least in my experience. IR missiles are great for catching the blissfully unaware…which is a solid chunck of the playerbase, especially launched without a lock. I always carry them, F-4J/S or FG.1/FGR.2

Catching an unawares bad player is the main reason I get kills in ground attackers. Doesnt make the ground attackers good in A2A combat.

If the only viable use case of a weapon is ratting, then its not an overly stronger weapon.

@Wyvern120

Again, NO ONE is disagreeing with you on this front. The AIM-7F IS the better missile. We all know that. But the Skyflash does well enough given how most matches play out. You have to think of it from the average player perspective. Not just yours, or mine. In the average game, these differences just don’t play out that often. I KNOW about these difference, but they hardly ever make or break the match.

Except they actually do though. Quite a major one, in how you can actually play the aircraft

If I take an FGR2 into an ARB match right now, im sitting at 150 ft, flanking wide and waiting for the early game furball to occur so I can dive in and rat a few kills at close range. Im not going to high alt, im not going to try and joust, im not going actively engage any target. Im going to stay defensive until I can get into close range and then third party.

In the F3, with viable performance SARH, im at 15k ft firing off Skyflash STs early game and usually walking away with 1-2 kills.

There is a reason imo, why the FGR2 is 11.3 in ASB and not 12.0 alongside the US F-4s… and its all to do with the difference in missile performance.

[fwp88]

All the points you outlined dont really matter at this point, as the usual gameplay of that thing is to spam off now 6 fakours and die/run back to AF. If it had 999 CM’s and AESA it would most probably remain this way. It really is just a feedback loop at this point:

• Due to fakours IRIAF has outstanding K/B
• “wow look at how good it is performing”
• BR gets raised
• As far as spamming fakours and dying goes, absolutely nothing has changed
• Due to fakours IRIAF has outstanding K/B
• …

You could just put it at 14.7 right here right now and it’s stats wouldnt suffer much, if at all.