And where did they pull the documents for that?
oh wait, probably out of their assho-
3 Likes
The 190 A1 is completely at home, fun to fly and duel in 3.0 BR.
The 190 A-4 / A-5 family, should be spread around 3.3 - 3.7, not the current 4.0 - 4.3 we see today.
The A-8 should be 4.7, airspawn is the only upside of it.
F-8 is ok, it’s a rusher that can annoy people and it does it’s job well.
2 Likes
There’s a report on the cooling issue that pretty much has doomed the Fw190 A line that’s still ignored.
It would be a significant improvement to have this implemented.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/vQsIjwDfLITn
The 190 A5’s specifically were also cursed with the newest Fw190 A5/U14 flight model years ago, which made them much worse at turning n pulls less G’s than the A4, A8 and F8.
However that was a completely artificial fm update, so I don’t know how we could request an improvement based on that.
4 Likes
The rest of the A family are really suffering, especially A-8, and even the air spawn is like, you still get outran.
F-8 is great with the 103s, absolute beast in head ons.
If you look at this thread from a holistic perspective you might agree to the following:
- A lot of experienced players have discussed open or hidden nerfs, limiting factors regarding combat effectiveness of 109s and 190s and possible solutions for these challenges.
- But objectively seen things gets even worse over time (see current flap nerf of 190s) and gaijin does nothing to improve the situation. That’s why in BR change rounds 109s or 190s are ignored - simply because gaijin is happy with their mediocre performance.
So it boils down that you have to take a step back and ask yourself why you should invest time in trying to change gaijin’s position if they decided to ignore this topic entirely.
A topic which was not mentioned was an indirect support of 109s and 190s to put some pressure away from them.
-
If you fly frequently around BR 3.3 - 4.3 in Air RB you might have noticed that in these ranges (plus full up and downtiers so 2.3 - 5.3) the impact of 109s and 190s determines the outcome - whilst other nations benefit from additional relief from the impact of their twin engine night fighters (like Mosquito NF Mk II, J 30 or the. 2 P-61s) whilst the impact of your own night fighters (Bf 110 G-4, Ta 154, He 219) is (mostly) non existent.
-
Especially in these small 6-8 vs 6-8 matches following the still active axis vs allies MM enemy night fighter farm your bombers and “free” enemy single engine fighters from those targets and subsequently increase the pressure on 109s and 190s even more.
-
I noticed now for 6-8 months that this early game impact of UK/US night fighters (Mosquito NF Mk II & P-61s) has a significant impact on match results - observing this either whilst playing the 3.3 Me 410 A-1 or the Italian SM 92 - or from the enemy perspective flying the Hellcat, Firefly, MB 157.
The root cause is based on two factors:
- UK/US night fighters have an 2 km airspawn, GER/IT night fighters have an 1 km air spawn - with similar climb rates the latter have a systemic disadvantage and subsequently way less game impact.
- Due to the lack of competitiveness basically no experienced Air RB pilot flies a GER/IT night fighter (or twin engine day fighter). The only exception i have noticed ages ago was @BlackberryAvar murdering XP-50s in a Me 410.
I addressed this topic in 3 BR change topics (Bf 110 G-4, Ta 154, He 219) - so in case you are a hardcore 109 or 190 enthusiats you might consider to upvote my request for an alignment of spawn altitudes for these 3 aircraft:
Thx for reading and have a good one!
3 Likes
Further addition regarding relief for 109s or 190s:
Based on my requests for an increase of spawn altitudes for GER / IT night fighters in order to overcome their systemic disadvantage - i am not sure if you are aware of that the UK has as only nation in wt also 6 (!!!) twin engine day fighters with a 2 km air superiority fighter air spawn:
- Westland Welkin at BR 4.7
- Whirlwind + premium Whirlwind at BR 3.7
- Hornet Mk I (premium) + Hornet Mk III at BR 6.0
- Mosquito F.Mk. II (Norway) at BR 3.7
Whilst i fully support a special role for night fighters (due to increased drag and weight of radar equipment) there is zero necessity to grant a single nation (like in this case UK) a special nation bonus in Air RB.
The impact of these 6 twin engine day fighters is similar to UK night fighters - they farm early game bombers whilst the time to kill them increases significantly. In a classic axis vs allies setup GER/IT prop fighters struggle to kill them - whilst aircraft like the 2 Hornets can simply fly away from props if they stay at higher altitudes.
I have created for the first 5 aircraft a BR change request (keeping BR but give them an interceptor spawn instead of an air superiority fighter spawn):
Thx for reading and have a good one!
1 Like
I completely agree, but I think the biggest problem is that Gaijin is currently neglecting all of WWII’s weaponry. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have set the Zero’s BR to 6.0… Well, maybe it’s still worth a try.
3 Likes
Imho you mix up a deliberate income nerf with neglection. I replied in an A6M thread:
BR changing of A6M52a/b to 6.0 is totally insane - #90 by Real_K_Soze
The core message:
-
If you look closely at the Air RB BR changes at ww2 BRs (up to ~6.3- 7.0) you see basically that all aircraft which are easy to play or produce way better results than gaijin wants them to have saw a BR increase.
-
BR increases are basically gaijin’s polite way to address an income nerf for all players - that’s the whole point of BR increases. The only noteworthy exception is that “allrounders” like USSR prop fighters are excluded from this process. That means either that Russian bias exists - or that their pilots perform so poorly that they don’t trigger a BR increase.
Have a good one!
5 Likes
The spitfire mk9 out climbes every german plane the 4.7 and 6.0 one and yak3s dout care about your energy german planes can only be used to dive on people wo are fighting already and steal the kills when they are slow and do that till someone above you kills you couse your fr never the highest the fw190s and bf109 can fr do nothing against most planes and if you can do anything your like 2km above them but thers also guys above you couse the planes are bad the germans are also ranked high couse of the guns but some time most times the 20mm do only hits less damage than 50.cals its crazy i hit a yak wit the bf109z with 4 mk108 and got hits 2 times its unfair
1 Like
They are broken again half the time i only get hits and i played wenn they wher broken and got fixed now its broken again
People trie to say german planes are got always say you have god climbe and energy but even some spitfires out climbe you and yak3s dount give af about energy so they are realy just bad planes
1 Like
I used the FW-190D13 a while ago, and honestly, it was quite difficult to engage every aircraft you encountered. With just the slightest movement, Spitfires and Bearcats would dodge you, then follow and kill you. With the FW, the problem is that if you attack with a small speed advantage, you’re dead, and if you have a large speed advantage, your rudders are locked, making it nearly impossible to follow an enemy that turns slightly.
3 Likes
i mean the 109s are workable
they just need to be played slowly
but the fw190s…
they just dont have the climb to do anything
2 Likes
imo the fw190s are not that good since their main selling point is speed rn
and none of them except the a1 are that fast at their br
2 Likes
Thats the big probleme with german planes they are good at some things but other more popular planes that are easyer to play are just better at everything playing things like yak3us and mk9s is just ez you dount need to thick the mk9s is good at two thing maybe even the best at two things wile german planes are mostly worse than anything i dount know why people are still defending it german planes are worse and need to be rebalanced it starts even with the gun belts german gun belts are like stelf nelts you have bad belts and russia has full tracer he belts all german planes turn like bombers i fell like they are way more mobile irl also the brs german planes get out Performed by lower br planes ez like the ta152 is good but the yak3u is just better and in other games german planes are not this bad in il2 german planes are way better and are more mobile also they get put against planes that are way lower in br than them i think the k4 in il2 is matched with the p51d30 that 5.0 vs 5.7 and its not a Problem the fight can go both ways its not like the k4 dominates
And in war thunder they are so high and just realy worse than every thing
1 Like
I believe the biggest problem, and what causes the aircraft’s BR to be so damaged, is the simple fact that in ARB enemy aircraft are marked in red, making surprise attacks virtually impossible, whereas in reality, surprise attacks accounted for 99% of kills. In reality, speed was important simply because it protects you from enemy attacks and also limits the time an enemy has to spot you before you attack.
3 Likes
I still find it curious how historical reports describe the FW-190A as practically equal in agility to the Spitfire MkV, except for full turns. However, the FW-190A is faster and has a better dive speed, which makes sense given that the FW was a nightmare for Spitfire pilots. Yet in the game, FWs are like bricks that don’t turn and can barely keep up with agile aircraft, even in the initial moments of a turn—the very moments when an FW-190A is supposedly almost on par with a Spitfire MkV.
I don’t know what it is, but I think the developers have overlooked some things in the flight models. For example, when watching historical videos, you see how the A6Ms under attack are unable to evade the shots by making a super tight turn, while in the game, simply turning avoids the entire attack.
4 Likes
doesnt even need to be a yak3u
the normal yak3 for example
is faster on the deck than most 190s
or my fav example for speed are the mustangs
now i dont say that all p51s are op or somehting like that
cuz not all of them are
but nearly all of them catch a fw190 while stomping it in a fight
its mostly just the fw is too slow rn
or doesnt turn good enough
if one of those things would change it could be an okay plane ngl
2 Likes
but all the 109s are fine if you ignore the g14 and g10
and maybeeee g2 since its just a worse f4 but even the g2 isnt that bad
1 Like
I cant do this anymore yak3s just dount care that you are faster that you have more energy i just flew a atack then ther was a yak3 i turned up to use my speed and get above him and he just flew after me gaining on me wile i dived from 3km and he flew straigt at 500m and he just folowed me its so bad how can anyone defend this shit thats just unfair
1 Like