Vehicles: Merkava 3B/C & Raam Sagol
Change: Buff the reload to 5 seconds ace
Right now the 11.3 Merkavas are in a weird spot. Non existent armor, poor mobility but decent gun handling. Therefore I would suggest to improve the reload on these Merkavas to be in line with the top tier ones as I would finally make them stand out in something on their respective BR
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Even fired at sub 10km, the Aim-7Fs retain significantly more energy, meaning they have a better time to target.
F-4S vs FGR2, the F-4S can fire first, from further away and still hit first.
I have never once mentioned the HMD because I agree. Though I will mention the Agile Eagle the F-4S has.
Right?
So the F-4J, F-4S, let alone the Tornado F3, all of which have straight up better missiles… will naturally do better then?
It all boils down with the fact that the FGR2 gets NOTABLY better SARH missiles and can run 6 of them at a BR where IR missiles, let alone rear-aspect IR missiels are basically worthless to carry.
Right? So you are now forced defensive? There are 2 ways to win a joust
- Kill the target before they can kill you
- force them into a defensive posture where you then have the advantage with guns or SRAAMs
If the Aim-7F has forced you to turn cold to defend, because you owuld loose the joust otherwise… then you have still won that joust.
Just ignoring the fact that they have notably better kinematic performance at these ranges too?
June 2026:
F-4S K/D: 0.99 K/S 0.83
FGR2 K/D: 0.93 K/S: 0.77
F4J(US) K/D: 0.93 K/S: 0.79
FG1 K/D: 0.89 K/S: 0.73
F4JUNK K/D: 0.81 K/S: 0.68
In May F-4S is higher than the FGR2 and nearly identical to the FG1
In April, F-4S is higher than the FG1 and the F-4J is higher than the FGR2.
Consistantly at the moment the F-4S is better or at worse, on-par, which, given just how bad F-4S players are… let alone US premium players… shows just how badly the UK Phantoms are actually performing, because if they were as good as you say, they would be notably higher than the historically, very poor performing US premiums.
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Mode: Air RB
Vehicle: Westland Whirlwind (TT and premium)
Recommendation: BR 3.7 (keep BR but give it an interceptor spawn)
Reasoning:
British twin engine day fighters have as only nation in wt an unfair advantage vs all other twin engine fighters at Rank III or higher as those have either an interceptor or an strike aircraft air spawn at 1km - but Britain has somehow 6 (!!!) twin engine day fighters with a 2 km air spawn.
This spawn advantage makes them on average way more effective than other “heavy fighters”.
Most people don’t know that currently just these 6 British twin engine day fighters have an Air Superiority fighter role and an air spawn at 2 km altitude:
- Westland Welkin at BR 4.7
- Whirlwind + premium Whirlwind at BR 3.7
- Hornet Mk I (premium) + Hornet Mk III at BR 6.0
- Mosquito F.Mk. II (Norway) at BR 3.7
Across all other TTs the 1 km higher (compared to interceptor spawn) air superiority fighter spawn aircraft are either night fighters (Do 217s, Mosquito NF Mk II / J 30 and 2 P-61s) or 2 low BR 2.3 Potez aircraft (630/633) accompanied by the BR 1.7 (all Air RB) Do 17 Z-1.
Air Defence fighter | Game roles | War Thunder Wiki
There is zero necessity for a special rule for British twin engine fighters.
Are you looking at just one month?
F-4S is higher in 3/4 of the past months, and only barely lower in the 1 month it isnt the highest of the 5, though then its only the FG1 and not the more commonly played FGR2 that is lower than the F-4S.
Given the usual difference in quality between the US players and UK players at this point in the grind… That says a LOT about how poorly the UK F-4s are actually doing at the moment. Let alone the difference between a TT player and a premium player.
(Just gunna throw it out there that the Tornado ADVs are ahead by a wide margin, the aircraft where the only thing it can do and do well is BVR and not WVR)
Mode: Air RB
Vehicle: Hornet Mk I (premium)
Recommendation: BR 6.0 (keep BR but give it an interceptor spawn)
Reasoning:
British twin engine day fighters have as only nation in wt an unfair advantage vs all other twin engine fighters at Rank III or higher as those have either an interceptor or an strike aircraft air spawn at 1km - but Britain has somehow 6 (!!!) twin engine day fighters with a 2 km air spawn.
This spawn advantage makes them on average way more effective than other “heavy fighters”.
Most people don’t know that currently just these 6 British twin engine day fighters have an Air Superiority fighter role and an air spawn at 2 km altitude:
- Westland Welkin at BR 4.7
- Whirlwind + premium Whirlwind at BR 3.7
- Hornet Mk I (premium) + Hornet Mk III at BR 6.0
- Mosquito F.Mk. II (Norway) at BR 3.7
Across all other TTs the 1 km higher (compared to interceptor spawn) air superiority fighter spawn aircraft are either night fighters (Do 217s, Mosquito NF Mk II / J 30 and 2 P-61s) or 2 low BR 2.3 Potez aircraft (630/633) accompanied by the BR 1.7 (all Air RB) Do 17 Z-1.
Air Defence fighter | Game roles | War Thunder Wiki
There is zero necessity for a special rule for British twin engine fighters.
Mode: Air RB
Vehicle: Hornet Mk III
Recommendation: BR 6.0 (keep BR but give it an interceptor spawn)
Reasoning:
British twin engine day fighters have as only nation in wt an unfair advantage vs all other twin engine fighters at Rank III or higher as those have either an interceptor or an strike aircraft air spawn at 1km - but Britain has somehow 6 (!!!) twin engine day fighters with a 2 km air spawn.
This spawn advantage makes them on average way more effective than other “heavy fighters”.
Most people don’t know that currently just these 6 British twin engine day fighters have an Air Superiority fighter role and an air spawn at 2 km altitude:
- Westland Welkin at BR 4.7
- Whirlwind + premium Whirlwind at BR 3.7
- Hornet Mk I (premium) + Hornet Mk III at BR 6.0
- Mosquito F.Mk. II (Norway) at BR 3.7
Across all other TTs the 1 km higher (compared to interceptor spawn) air superiority fighter spawn aircraft are either night fighters (Do 217s, Mosquito NF Mk II / J 30 and 2 P-61s) or 2 low BR 2.3 Potez aircraft (630/633) accompanied by the BR 1.7 (all Air RB) Do 17 Z-1.
Air Defence fighter | Game roles | War Thunder Wiki
There is zero necessity for a special rule for British twin engine fighters.
How about you raise the Max br to 15.0 (or higher) for both air and ground to further reduce Compression.
Thats what war thunder needs.
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the other F-4s have J79s and not Speys
Overall, I think flames argument on this is the most solid:
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The F-4S also has more than 10x more matches played in the last 4 months
Nobody bothers with the FG.1 and FGR.2 since the Tornado F.3 is the better plane (better than both the US and UK Phantoms)
If anything this shows that the Tornado F.3 should have a higher BR, not that the UK Phantoms should have a lower one.
Right?
And?
Slightly better low alt top speed and acceleration in exchange for straight up half the missile performance?
and if you fly at any alt other than tree-top level. There is no difference in performance at all.
That is a way better approach than to reduce the BRs
Exactly?
Which generally would result in a lower overall performance.
The F-4S has:
- American Players
- Premium Players
- Greater number of players
and is still usually performing better than the UK F-4s.
and the moment they fix BOL and add Phimat, I’ll be advocating for a BR increase. (Combat thrust like the Mig-29KR has would be quite handy too)
2 Likes
For the record… bar the F-4JUNK, which straight up is NOT a 12.0 worthy aircraft at the moment… My main advocacy would be adding Skyflash STs to all 3.
FGR2 should then also get 9Ls.
FG1 shouldnt be at the same BR as the F-4S, but also probably shouldnt be at 11.7 (though I do consider it a direct equivalent to the Mig-23MLD, so that should be at 12.0 or the FG1 should be at 11.7)
F-4JUNK is straight up an 11.7 worthy aircraft. Stronger than the Viggen C, but weaker than anything at 12.0. Skyflash STs and napalm would at least put it vaguely on par with the F4JUS
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So, in simple words: We are removing 2 vehicles based on historical evidence of their incomplete existence due to high demand to be removed, simply because no one is capable of effectively destroying them at their battle ranking when it starts rushing, while also not providing any actual proper replacements for such vehicles cause we cannot bother to do so.
Also, FOMO stands for “Fear of Missing Out”
It’s not hard to look up the definition, since you clearly do not know what it actually is. This occurred when you folks removed the reserve French Tanks, Panther II, 10.5, and many other vehicles. People had a fear of missing out and started sweating over this game to collect them. Which still occurs when the Maus appears.
If you are going to remove them, how about replacing them with all 3 of their historical counterparts? Instead of pretty much telling every Japanese Main who is researching it, “Boo hoo”.
In terms of some CC’s, not directly. Major L in this case, cause this is particularly what pissed off the Japanese mains when you folks tried to remove the Ha-Go for simply being “bad”. When it isn’t. I’m probably going to be timed out for this entire essay. I’m prob going to be timeout but I stand by what I said. Poor decision, Gaijin, poor decision.
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Vehicle: AH-1E (Japan)
Gamemode: Ground Realistic
BR Change: 9.3 —> 9.0
Reason: There’s no reason why this helicopter should have so high BR. It has no flares, no chaff, no IRCM, no TV-sight. Its ATGMs also have inferior range to most of its counterparts, as they aren’t tandem. The only thing the helicopter does have is a ballistic computer, but given the sheer number of SPAAs and autocannons on these BRs, this isn’t its biggest advantage.
2 Likes
This is very true.
Which will allow you to slightly better manuever, but almost never enough to matter.
There are many, MANY things, that determine whether a missile or platform will do better in a scenario. Narrowing it down to “X has better missiles, so therefore X is better” ignores a good bit of play, strategy, launch parameters, etc. Also, note that the SuperTEMP only has better range and speed. Turning performance and even guidance delay are the same. Both will do circus tricks, one does them a bit further away.
That is a bit hard to agree with, at least in my experience. IR missiles are great for catching the blissfully unaware…which is a solid chunck of the playerbase, especially launched without a lock. I always carry them, F-4J/S or FG.1/FGR.2
Again, NO ONE is disagreeing with you on this front. The AIM-7F IS the better missile. We all know that. But the Skyflash does well enough given how most matches play out. You have to think of it from the average player perspective. Not just yours, or mine. In the average game, these differences just don’t play out that often. I KNOW about these difference, but they hardly ever make or break the match.
People’s personal experience with skyflashes are interesting and all, but I must remind everyone Skyflash DF is literally just an aim-7e2 (also available at 11.3 F-4E) with a different prox fuze.
I am aware of this, but I dont really see the relevancy, if we are talking about 2 identical aircraft, firing under near enough identical conditions, then missile performance does matter greatly.
If at low alt, the FGR2 might have a marginally higher top speed, but not enough to negate the missile difference more than a tiny amount. At higher alts, then there is no difference in launch conditions, because the spey engines are only better at low alts.
Right?
So is a notable upgrade?
Catching an unawares bad player is the main reason I get kills in ground attackers. Doesnt make the ground attackers good in A2A combat.
If the only viable use case of a weapon is ratting, then its not an overly stronger weapon.
Except they actually do though. Quite a major one, in how you can actually play the aircraft
If I take an FGR2 into an ARB match right now, im sitting at 150 ft, flanking wide and waiting for the early game furball to occur so I can dive in and rat a few kills at close range. Im not going to high alt, im not going to try and joust, im not going actively engage any target. Im going to stay defensive until I can get into close range and then third party.
In the F3, with viable performance SARH, im at 15k ft firing off Skyflash STs early game and usually walking away with 1-2 kills.
There is a reason imo, why the FGR2 is 11.3 in ASB and not 12.0 alongside the US F-4s… and its all to do with the difference in missile performance.
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