Panzer 3/2. a FFI salvage

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​caid’s suggestion #8

I would like to suggest a rather oddball for the French ground forces, the Panzer 3/2

elHok0K.jpg

The French Flag and the FFI marking are visible on the front.

If you feel like this name is made up, well, it is a name I chose as the tank does not have any known name.

this tank is a unique and mysterious tank that appears during a liberation parade in the hands of the French FFI. The origin of the tank is still unknown. it was likely a Damaged Panzer III Ausf J whose turret was missing or too damaged to be used. and a Panzer II Ausf F turret would be possibly used as a fortification. why I suppose it was a fortification and not used in a Panzer 2 tank? simply because the turret right wouldn’t need to be changed. the turret on the fortification came with a plate that already included a proper turret right, Use it, you just need to put the new turret over the existing turret holes and weld the plate over the chassis. this reduces the need for modification on the chassis and makes the job a lot easier. intact, a bunch of men could modify without any specialized tools. like this following photo show.

G06AnXD.jpg

nothing is confirmed but this theory appears to me as very likely. the soldier could mount the new turret in a matter of 1 hour or so. this conversion could be done very quickly.

as the FFI was in dear need of military material to join the momentum of the allied liberation of France and the retreat of the Germans, such tanks would be extremely welcome. It would be a bit better than a Panzer II. the tank was seen in 1944 but no trace was found after this picture was taken. this could mean the tank was destroyed shortly after or scrapped after WW2.

Firepower

the Panzer 3/2 was armed with a 20mm Kwk38 auto-cannon. making it one of the few French tanks that was using a proper auto-cannon during WW2. this auto-cannon offers good firepower and a good fire rate. capable of using HVAP rounds to deal with heavier tanks, it would be an excellent support tank. but not a so competitive one in the front line, taking advantage of his fast fire rate, you could make it better in ambush and flanking than the front line.

the ammo load is unknown, but likely carries more than the Panzer II as the Panzer III chassis has a lot more space.

a Coaxial 7.92 mm MG 34 is placed on the side of the gun.

a hull 7.92mm MG 34 is placed on the right side of the front

Mobility

the weight of the Panzer 3/2 is not stated but could be guessed. according to the Russian document, the weight of the Panzer II turret is 700 kg, the variants is not known but they shall not be so far from one another. and the weight of the Panzer III turret is 2140 kg. this does not include the ammo load but already gives us the clue the weight is at least 1.440 kg lighter. Since we know the Panzer III Ausf J is 21.8 tonnes, the change of the turret shall give at least a reduction to 20.4 tonnes. but outside the weight of the turret, the rounds are also lighter., the Pazer III ausf J carries 471.9 kg in 50mm rounds while the Panzer II ausf F carries 54 kg in 20mm rounds. even if we suppose the Panzer 3/2 carries twice as many rounds, it remains a difference close to 3.5 kg. giving this estimation, the tank shall weigh about 20 tonnes. and i will use this weight as place holder until we know more about his exact weight. giving it has a 300 hp engine, the power/weight ration would reach 15 hp/tonnes and that would make this tank have great mobility mobility getting close to the M24. the top speed probably goes above 54 km/h a bit but we do not know exactly how fast it could go. so we will keep the 54 km/h

Protection

the armor of this tank is between the Panzer III and Panzer II. the hull is well protected, more protected than the Panzer II but the turret is less protected than the Panzer III. together, it would give a so-so performance. the chassis was created to have a 3-man turret, only the Panzer II is a 2-man turret. this makes the tank have a total crew of 4 men which is not bad for a low-rank French tank.

Source

Spoiler

for the weight of the turret

3P9CxNq.jpg

for the chassis

For the turret

Both together

5 Likes
2

This is really funky! +1

2 Likes
3

9 Likes
4

This has to be one of the most hilarious tanks I’ve ever seen, this has my vote! An absolute +1

1 Like
5

He is a Level 1 Goblin. +1

1 Like
6

Interesting tank +1

1 Like
7

perfectly odd and unique enough without being over-power or balance-breaking while being easy to add.

i believe it could be a perfect vehicle to have as a premium or even. maybe for the war bound and stuff.

8

Technically youre missing some standart ammo such as the Pzgr. L’Spur .Zerl which replaced the Ph core with 2,4g Pent and a Sd. Fuze, as this ammo was also used against planes and didnt have a habit of self igniting in the heat of the desert and more.

1 Like
9

i didn’t check very deep in the ammunition the 2cm was using there. i just copy-paste what we had ingame

10

Understanable.

2 Likes
11

don’t ruin sim anymore than it already is, even if it has the markings people will cover them up

1 Like
12

any extra ammunition that offers different performance and was actively used would be a welcome addition. i see there is an APHE amount of those. that would make it quit effective against light armor.
and the performence is also interresting

thanks for the help

13

or they could just block certain vehicles in Sim

besides, there is a lot of chance this would backfire, as your teammate is just as likely to mistake you for an enemy

1 Like
14

if they did this I would vote yes, but they wont and you know it

1 Like
15

i believe many vehicles are blocked in certain events as they are considered too OP.

Gaijin often work their way to fix things.
at the same time, there is already T-34 in the German tree, panzer in the Russian tree, Sherman in every tree except Sweden.

this tank at least has a turret that gives away the real nation it is. Others are just plain copy-paste.

16

Was gonna make a counterpoint but then i remembered that 50~% of sim players cant tell the difference between a rock and log

3 Likes
17

unfortunately gaijin does not block certain vehicles for being too OP and just because there are already captured and Lendlease in sim doesn’t mean there should be more

the turret is different but its still a German turret so its not different enough to not hesitate

1 Like
18

This would be a really funky event vehicle!
Did the turret actually traverse, though? A lot of these turret swaps were non-functional and welded in place because of the difference in turret ring diameters. It’s a lot more complicated than simply taking a turret and plopping it on a hull!

1 Like
19

France would not have used a non-functional tank. they would rather use a jeep with machine-gun instant. piece of working tank was common in France during the fight of late WW2. they were eager to fight but not in a hurry to die. the allied supplied them with plenty of vehicles but it was seldom enough. the Germans left hundreds of vehicles, sometimes in working condition, just lacking fuel. they scavenge all they can find operational. which included a dozen decent tanks in Normandy alone who were in working condition and still decent tanks for the performance even if they were not the best by them

If they just mounted the Pillbox turret, there is no need to change the turret ring. you just put the whole plate coming with the turret ring right over the chassis and the tank would end up with two turret ring, one larger that becomes useless, and the smaller one fitting inside.

they surely just used one of those defenses that Germany was building in a hurry when the Allied advanced in France

there were many in France and sometimes they didn’t even build it on concrete. they were often just mounted on a hole with with log to keep the wall from collapsing. a squad could build it in less than a day

3 Likes
20

French forces did a lot of fighting in the interior of France containing and clearing German forces (and Vichy collaborators), esp. the coastal garrisons. These were often poorly equipped so even a Pz II would be a formidable vehicle.
Pz III & IVs had to remove the turret to replace the transmission (!), so its very plausible to have found a runner from a maintenance area without a turret.

1 Like