German WW2 SPAAG Flaks 15-50mm and their Ammunition

Ghostmaxi · June 19, 2023, 6:56pm

Here I created an Index of Self propelled and used german WW2 Flaks and their ammunition. Going from small (15mm) to the biggest automatic (50mm) Flak which where used in a self propelled form.

(I leave Üb (practice) m.Zerl (selfdestruct) and the filler of Incendary out of the list.)

Pictures of the rounds are also WIP

Visible destinction of ammo types:

Spoiler

Yellow: He and He-I
Blue: Incendary with nose fuze
Black: Ap

Black with a blue band at the shoulder: Ap-I

Black with a yellow band at the shoulder: Aphe

Black with a blue and a yellow band at the shoulder: Aphe-I

Black with a white tip: HVAP/APCR

Light red band above the driving band: Leuchtspur (tracer for day use)

Dark red band above the driving band: Glimmspur (tracer for night use)

Stencil letters on the body of the projectile:

M: Minengeschoss/M-Geschoss → Thin walled with high bursting charge

Ph: Incendary filler is phosphorus

E: Incendary filler is thermite/Elektron

Round nameing nomenclature:

Spoiler

Here i break appart how the names of the rounds come together:

First a short list of what the words are, their short forms and english translation.

M, Minen → High capacity (in this context)

H, Hochgeschwindigkeits → High velocity (but it also sayes that it has an Tungsten core)

Pz, Panzer → Armor/Armorpiercing (in this context)

Br, Brant → Incendary

Spr, Spreng → High explocive

L`Spur, Leucht Spur → Tracer (day)

Gl`Spur, Glimm Spur → Tracer (night)

o.Zerl, ohne Zerleger → non Selfdestruct

m.Zerl, mit Zerleger → Selfdestruct

gr., Granate → Grenade/round (in this context)

gesch., Geschoss → Round

Patr., Patrone → Caseing

These shortforms are put together to descripe the round, but there are some rules:

The pattern is the following: x-xxxxxxxxx. x`Spur x.Zerl

The first letter shows the general Type it ca be an M- or an H- or noting, in wich case it is normal.

Then the next descripe the effect, which have an hirachy:

Pz 2. Br 3. Spr

Another rule is that Br is only in the name when a dedicated incendary material (for example Electron Thermite or Phosphorus), but not if only the He filler has an certain incenday effect like HA 41 or HTA.

Also if it is M- it wont get the Spr addition.

Then comes the gr. or in the case if it is only an M- round without dedicated Pz or Br an Gesch. comes instead of gr.

If the round has an Incenday effect the type is written in ( ) behind gr. if it has an own fuzeing (In Ap rounds), but not if the incenday effect is set free with detonation of the main charge (for example in the 3 cm Pzbrsprgr. L`Spur o.Zerl.)

Next If it has a tracer it is written and which type L or Gl if none then it is simply left out.

After that comes o.Zerl. or m.Zerl., but that is unique to every round, because allmost all rounds (except Ap rounds) have both self destruct and non self destruct fuzes available.

If you are talking about the whole round with caseing an additional Patr. comes after gr./gesch.

Here are some examples, of course the caliber comes infront of the name:

H-Pzgr. L`Spur o.Zerl

M-Pzgr. L`Spur o.Zerl

Pzgr. L`Spur o.Zerl

M-Gesch. o.Zerl

M-Brgr. o.Zerl

Sprgr. Gl`Spur o.Zerl

Pzbrsprgr. L`Spur o.Zerl

Common He filler and their aquivalent:

PENT: x1,7 HTA: x1,2 HA 41: x1,6

15mm Mg 151/15

Spoiler

Caliber: 15mm

Ammo: 15x96mm

Fire Rate: 700-750 rpm (Syncronized)

Beltfed

Muzzle velocity: 850-1050 m/s

Weight: 37kg

Ammo Types:

AP:

Pzgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Ap-T) 0,072kg 850m/s 0g filler 33mm/10m

Spoiler

Pzbrgr. o.Zerl. (Ap-I) 0,059kg 960m/s 0g filler 35mm/10m

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H-Pzgr. o.Zerl. (HVAP) 0,0545kg 1040-1050m/s 39g core 51mm/10m

Spoiler

Nose Fuze:

Brsprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (HeI-T) 0,057kg 960m/s 1,9g Pent (3,23g)

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(Could only find the m.Zerl version, o.Zerl is the same just without the little hole between charge and tracer)

Brsprgr. Gl`Spur. o.Zerl. (HeI-T night) ditto

Sprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (He-T) 0,057kg 960m/s 2,8g Pent (4,76g)

Sprgr. Gl`Spur. o.Zerl. (He-T night) ditto

Brgr. LSpur/GlSpur. o.Zerl. 0,057kg 960m/s 0,6g Pent (1,02)

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(Could only find the m.Zerl version, o.Zerl is the same just without the little hole between charge and tracer)

20mm Mg 151/20

Spoiler

Caliber: 20mm

Ammo: 20x82mm

Fire Rate: 700-750 rpm (Syncronized)

Beltfed

Muzzle velocity: 720-790 m/s

Weight: 37kg

Ammo Types:

To make it easyer 3 categories: 1. "Thick walled 2. Medium walled 3. Thin walled

Ap rounds, base designe Ap, other types are the same round only replacing the filler from Pressstoff (bakelite) → Phosphorus → Pent and chaning the bottom screw to a bottom fuze so the performance is the same of all types

Pzgr. o.Zerl. (Ap) 0,117kg 720m/s 0g 27mm/10m

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Pzbrgr. (Elektron) o.Zerl. (Ap-I) 0,117kg 720m/s 0g 27mm/10m

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Pzsprgr. o.Zerl. (Aphe) 0,117kg 720m/s 5,1g Pent (8,67g) 27mm/10m

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Pzsprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Aphe-T) 0,117kg 720m/s 3g Pent (5,1g) 27mm/10m

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Pzsprgr. Gl´Spur. o.Zerl. (Aphe-T night) ditto

Bottom Fuze active after 3mm

Nose Fuze rounds same rounds made to the same characteristics of the Ap round with different fillers:

Sprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (He-T) 0,117kg 720m/s 4,3g Pent (7,31g)

Spoiler

(Could only find the m.Zerl version, o.Zerl is the same just without the little hole between charge and tracer)

Brsprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (HeI-T) 0,117kg 720m/s 2,3g Pent (3,91g)

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Brgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (I-T) 0,117kg 720m/s 0g (Apparently duo design (it has a solid head with a small hole with a little proccussion cap) it counts as AP in game) 27mm/10m

Spoiler

Of both are also Gl`Spur

3.Thin walled Minengeschoss:

M-Geschoss are multiple on the same principal with Mv of 790m/s with Self destruct and without of He He-I and with I.

M-Gesch. o.Zerl. 0,095kg 790m/s 18g HA 41 (29,76g)

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M-Gesch. X m.Zerl 0,104kg 750m/s 25g HA 41 (40g)

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Vehicle:
Sd.Kfz.251/21

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Sd.Kfz 251/17 HDL 151

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Pz I Ausf. B mit Mg 151 Drilling

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Unlike on the 251/21 this uses the land mount with shoulder pats and no seat, because the space is much smaller.

20mm Mg FF/M

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Caliber: 20mm

Ammo: 20x80mm

Fire Rate: 520 rpm (Unsyncronized)

Drumfed 60-90 rpg

Muzzle velocity: 585-695 m/s

Weight: 28kg

Ammo Types:

Same as Mg 151/20, for detailed info see above, only difference is in the Mv:

Ap

Pzgr. o.Zerl. (Ap) 0,117kg 585m/s 0g 20mm/10m

Pzbrgr. (Elektron) o.Zerl. (Ap-I) 0,117kg 585m/s 0g 20mm/10m

Pzsprgr. o.Zerl. (Aphe) 0,117kg 585m/s 5,1g Pent (8,67g) 20mm/10m

Bottom Fuze active after 3mm

Nose Fuze

Sprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (He-T) 0,117kg 585m/s 4,3g Pent (7,31g)

Brsprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (HeI-T) 0,117kg 585m/s 2,3g Pent (3,91g)

Brgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (I-T) 0,117kg 585m/s 0g (Apparently duo design (it has a solid head with a small hole with a little proccussion cap) it counts as AP in game) 20mm/10m

Of both are also Gl`Spur

3.Thin walled Minengeschoss:

M-Geschoss are multiple on the same principal with Mv of 695m/s with Self destruct and without of He He-I and with I.

M-Gesch. o.Zerl. 0,095kg 695m/s 18g HA 41 (29,76g)

Mountings:

Pintel

Vehicles:

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Kübelwagen MG FF/M

20mm Flak 30/38 L/65

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Flak 30:

Flak 38:

Gebirgsflak 38:

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The Gebirgsflak 38 is a lightweight version, which can be disassebled into 3 pieces to carry it by 3 solders.

The Mounting is also lightweight and has increased vertical traverse for fighting in the mountains.

Ill put these 2 together cince they have the same L/65 barrle and the same 20x138mm ammo.

Caliber: 20mm

Ammo: 20x138mm

Fire Rate: 280 rpm (30) 480 rpm (38)

Magazinfed 20 rounds

Muzzle velocity: 830-1050 m/s

Weight: 700kg (need specification/with mount)

Ammo Types: ApI-T, APCR-T and HeI-T

Pzgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (ApI-T) 0,148kg 830m/s 0g 40mm/10m

Spoiler

Pzgr 40 L`Spur. o.Zerl. (HVAP-T) 0,100kg 1050m/s 62g core (12mm?) 50mm/10m

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Brsprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Hefi-T) 0,120kg 900m/s 6,2g Pent (10,54g)

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Brsprgr. o.L’Spur. o.Zerl. (He-I) 0,120kg 900m/s 20g H.5 and Zink

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Screenshot 2023-09-06 122928

Mountings:

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Schwebelafette,Hängelaffette, The one with the shield (couldnt find the name), Flakvierling

Vehicles:

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Flakpanzer I, Flakpanzer 38, Wibelwind, Möbelwagen

30mm Flak 103/38

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Caliber: 30mm

Ammo: 30x184mm

Fire Rate: 450 rpm (Syncronized)

Beltfed 50-60 rpg box

Muzzle velocity: 800-960 m/s

Weight: 105kg

Ammo Types: Ap-I, Aphe-T, Apihecbc-T, HVAP-T, He-T, He

Similar principal to the Mg 151/20

AP

Pzbrgr.(Elektron) o.Zerl. (Ap-I) 0,5kg 800m/s 0g 58mm/10m

Spoiler

Pzsprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Aphe-T) 0,5kg 800m/s 14g Pent (23,8g) 58mm/10m (Like the ammo of the Mg 151/20 this is build like the Pzbrgr but with Pent filling and a Bottomfuze instead of Thermite filling.)

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Pzbrsprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (ApheIcbc-T) 0,455kg 800m/s 5,2g Pent (8,84g) 58mm/10m

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H-Pzgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (HVAP-T) 0,360kg 960m/s 0g 77mm/10m

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Bottom Fuze active after 5mm

Nose Fuze

Sprgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (He-T) 0,44kg 800m/s 27g Pent (45,9g)

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Minengeschoss:

M-Gesch. L`Spur. o.Zerl. 0,33kg 900-920m/s 70g HTA 5g Pent (92,5g)

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M-Gesch. o.Zerl.: 0,33kg 860-900m/s 85g HTA (102g)

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Mountings:

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Same as 2 cm Flak 38, Same as Flakvierling 38

Baumaffe (Treemonkey) and Sockellafette

Vehicles:

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Steyr 2000A

Zerstörer 45

Sd.Kfz. 70

(couldnt find the one with the Mk 103)

Bergepanzer 38(t) and Grille Ausf.M

37mm Flak 18/36/37

Spoiler

Caliber: 37mm

Ammo: 37x263mm

Fire Rate: 160 rpm

Loading Tray 6 round Rahmen (Frame)

Muzzle velocity: 783-1170m/s

Weight: 274 kg(Flak 18)

Ammo Types: Aphe, Hvap-T, Fi-T

Ap:

Pzgr. 18 L`Spur (Aphe) 0,685 kg 770/820m/s 13g Pent (22,1g) 54mm/10m

Spoiler

Pzgr. (Naval) (Apcbc) 0,7 kg 815M/s solid 67mm/10m

M-Pzgr. 18 L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Aphe) 0,710-0,720 kg 783M/s 90g HTA (108g) 43mm/10m (0,715kg)

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H-Pzgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Apcr) 0,410 kg 1150-1170m/s 231g core(16,1mm) 110-113mm/10m

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Bottom Fuze active after 7mm (Note all Ap rounds starting from 37mm use the Bd.Z. d. 3,7 cm Pzgr.)

He:

Brsprgr. 18 L`Spur. (umg.) (Fi-T) 0,62 kg 820/845m/s 29g Pent (49,3g)

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M-Gr. 18 L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Fi-T) 0,55kg 914m/s 90g HTA (108g) 4-10mm/10m (on planes the same round in game has 10mm idk)

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Mountings:

WIP

Vehicles:

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Sd.Kfz 6/2 (5t)

Sd.Kfz 7/2 (8t)

Pz I Ausf. B mit 3,7 cm Flak 37

37mm Flak 43

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Caliber: 37mm

Ammo: 37x263mm

Fire Rate: 250 rpm

Loading Tray 8 round Rahmen (Frame)

Muzzle velocity: 783-1170m/s

Weight: <274 kg(Flak 18)

Ammo Types: Aphe, APCR, Fi-T (Pictures see above)

Ap:

Pzgr. 18 L`Spur. (Aphe) 0,685 kg 770/820m/s 13g Pent (22,1g) 54mm/10m

Pzgr. (Naval) (Apcbc) 0,7 kg 815M/s solid 67mm/10m

M-Pzgr. 18 L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Aphe) 0,710-0,720 kg 783M/s 90g HTA (108g) 43mm/10m (0,715kg)

H-Pzgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Apcr) 0,410 kg 1150-1170m/s 231g core(16,1mm) 110-113mm/10m

Bottom Fuze active after 7mm (Note all Ap rounds starting from 37mm use the Bd.Z. d. 3,7 cm Pzgr.)

He:

Brsprgr. 18 L`Spur. (umg.) (Fi-T) 0,62 kg 820/845m/s 29g Pent (49,3g)

M-Gr. 18 L`Spur. (Fi-T) 0,55kg 914m/s 90g HTA (108g) 4-10mm/10m (on planes the same round in game has 10mm idk)

Mountings:

WIP

Vehicles:

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Ostwind

Ostwind II (Flakzwilling)

3,7 cm Flak 43 auf s.W.S

50mm Flak 41 L/67

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Caliber: 50mm

Ammo: 50x345mm

Fire Rate: 130 rpm (or 180rpm by multiple sources)

Traverse:

Horizontal: 360°

Vertical: -10° +90°

Loading Tray 5 round Rahmen (Frame)

Muzzle velocity: 840-(>=)920m/s

Weight:

Ammo Types: Apcbc, He-T, Hefi-T

AP:

Pzgr. 42 L`Spur. (Apcbc) 2,23Kg 830m/s 17g Pent (28,9g) 113mm/10m

Bottom Fuze active after 7mm (Note all Ap rounds starting from 37mm use the Bd.Z. d. 3,7 cm Pzgr.)

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Nose Fuze:

Sprgr. 41 L`Spur. (He-T) 2,195Kg 840m/s 90g Pent (153g)

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M-Gesch. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (He-T) 1,52Kg >=920m/s 335g HTA (420g)

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Vehicles:

DB 4500A

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Sd.Kfz. 7

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Sources:

Handbuch der Flugzeugbordwaffenmunition 1936-1945

Captured ammunition Bulletin

German light anti-aircraft and anti-tank guns The War Office Dec 1942

German Antiaircraft Artillery, military intelligence service special series 10 Feb. 1943

4402/2 Mun. d. 2 cm Flak 30,38 und Flakvierling 38

4402/4 Mun. d. 5 cm Flak 41

G1label · June 20, 2023, 11:07pm

Would also be neat to see the 5.5cm gerät 58 on here. Though I can see why it isnr given that non of the vehicles proposed to mount it where ever built in full.

Theoask79 · June 27, 2023, 7:05pm

Excellent article. Very comprehensive and detailed! Wonderful!

Ghostmaxi · June 28, 2023, 5:25am

Ty, i will continue to work on it, using spoilers and i will add an 2,5 cm Flak (f) to it. If you know more guns that can be added, feel free to post it preferably with a picture. Im planning to also create a seperat (because of max post size) post for after war Flaks such as Rh 202 or 35 mm KDA.
Also feel free to add an heart to it, so that more people can find out about it.
Regarding the 5,5 cm Gerät 58, it hasnt really a place here, cince it only had He/Minen rounds and wasnt put on any vehicle.

G1label · July 1, 2023, 9:00pm

I had heard thay many rounds including a modified flak 41 ap round where tested on it. Still though i get why you havent implanted it.

Ghostmaxi · August 28, 2023, 6:01pm

2,5 cm Flak Hotchkiss (f)

GHOST_KING5710 · September 5, 2023, 10:24pm

Can 20mm Flak use Minengeschoss like the Mg 151/20 and Mg FF/M

Ghostmaxi · September 5, 2023, 10:42pm

Not that i know of, however i have seen the stating of use of the 117-119 g Pzbrgr and Pzsprgr in the 20x138mm case with 900m/s to better fight against armored Aircraft such as the IL-2 but i only saw one source a rather long time ago, so idk.

HOWEVER there was aparently also a tracerless higher capacity He round iirc.

While this is the Brsprgr., the same was also as just Sprgr. This has 20g Hex 5. (Aka H.5 as found allready in game)

GHOST_KING5710 · September 5, 2023, 11:05pm

20g the in game Sprgr. have only 10.2g so basically wirbelwind is missing a stronger shell

Ghostmaxi · September 5, 2023, 11:14pm

Well, yes, of course its a tradeoff to having no tracer. Ill make a report tomorrow and look for a bit more detail and add it to this page, i think i forgot it here.

GHOST_KING5710 · September 5, 2023, 11:22pm

Good luck with the report.

And there is this shell too but not sure if it does exist or not i don’t trust wiki but it worth the try.

Minengeschosspatrone X L’spur mit Zerleger:
shell type: HEI-T (M)

total: wight 109g

explosive filler: 24,5 - 25 g HE HA 41 (RDX + (Aluminium) powder + wax)

vilocity: 950 m/s

KillaKiwi · September 5, 2023, 11:47pm

No. It’s 20g of H.5 with a huge amount of zinc powder based on the weight of the filling.
The Br.Sprgr. with tracer actually uses the body of the regular HEF-T. The weight increased from 115g to 120g by just switching the filling from Np. 10 to H. 5 with zinc powder.

Zinc is as heavy as steel and has more than 3 times the density of explosives.
A 70:30 mixture would result in a density of basically twice that of regular explosves, thus instead of 6.2g Np. 10 you get 11.2g of 70:30 H.5 and zinc.
So a regular 20x139mm HEF would hold roughly 11g of PETN or 20g of H.5 with zinc.

That of course means that the HEI-T actually holds less H.5 than the HEF-T holds with just Np. 10 and that the HEI without tracer holds less than 11g of PETN.

According to ChatGPT (already too late do figuring out the math myself) the 20g mixture would contain around 7g of pure H. 5. Which would be the equivalent of 12g TNT and practically the same as the HEFI-T we have in-game.

Now of course this shell would be a lot more effective in reality because of the incendiary effect against fuel, but I think for the game it will make very little difference.

Then again it would be any SPAA players dream to fire shells without tracer.

GHOST_KING5710 · September 5, 2023, 11:57pm

What about this type of shells

Minengeschosspatrone X L’spur mit Zerleger:
shell type: HEI-T (M)

total: wight 109g

explosive filler: 24,5 - 25 g HE HA 41 (RDX + (Aluminium) powder + wax)

vilocity: 950 m/s

Does it exists do you have informations about it

KillaKiwi · September 6, 2023, 12:07am

Nope. Never heard of it.

Might have been a late-war development. I think the FlaK units showed some interest in adopting Mineshells themself.

From the attack angle, Mineshells actually make the most sense, since you’re most likely to hit the wings. A fragmentation round will have almost no effect when it hits a wing. Only when fragments hit some imporant modules.

Then again, a 20mm Mineshell would still have very little effect on the plane while a single HEF round might actually knock out the pilot or damage the engine with fragmentation.

So I’m not sure, if using 20mm Mineshells would really be better compared to a 20mm HEFI.

GHOST_KING5710 · September 6, 2023, 12:16am

Never mind i found it op actually mentioned it in the mg 151/20 section so basically it’s real and been used and it’s used on mg 151/20 then i believe it’s been used on the flak 20/38 too

Ghostmaxi · September 6, 2023, 10:05am

Oh, well i understood that it has 20g H.5 + xg Zink, anyway 7g of H.5 at x1,7 to 12g Aquivalent with additional Incendary effect and without Tracer is absolutly worth the effort. Its still an absolut win.

GHOST_KING5710 · September 6, 2023, 10:49am

Well no mineshell are not just HE that are supposed to explode on the surface the mineshell designed with a fuse delay that allow it to penetrate then explode on the inside sending alot of shrapnel to the other side while creating abig hole of impact on the side where it entered look at this

Ghostmaxi · September 6, 2023, 12:33pm

15 cm Flak 33 L/12? ;D
jbgcgfc

KillaKiwi · September 6, 2023, 2:28pm

Yeah that video is unfortunetaly complete bogus.
Almost nothing he says is grounded in reality and he makes a ton of mistakes.

A plane is made light material like wood or aluminum alloys, they don’t posses the weight which would turn them into effective fragments from a blast.
The destrutive power of an explosive rounds comes mainly from the fragments.

A plane comprises of a number of vital components, which are:

The engine (including cooling system)
Fuel tanks
Pilot
Structure (includes controls and surfaces)

Mineshells are designed to down a plane by targeting the structure since it’s the biggest area of a plane. They are however not as efficent in knocking out the other systems compared to regular fragmentation rounds.

They can be very effective, as long as they are destructive enough to the airframe since that combines the biggest target area with the least amount of shells to shoot the plane down.
However when planes grow in size, so does their structure making them less effective compared to shells that rely more on fragmentation.

KillaKiwi · September 13, 2023, 7:51pm

Actually I’m wrong about that. Unlike the Brandsprenggranate o. L’Spur the one with Tracer uses the body of the HEF-T with heat sensitive self-destruct mechanism, and uses an unkown explosive with aluminum powder. So the weight of the shell without the added aluminum was already 120g.
Which of course doesn’t change the fact that the amount of explosive must be lower than 6.2g PETN.