P-47 & P-51 Nerf on Sea-level Speed

After the major updates, there were claims about the nerf of about 30kph on the maximum level flight speed of late P-51( P-51D/K/H) and all P-47s.



(Tests done & screenshots from other players)
Several tests show P-51D-30 could only reach 580kph at sea level, and 550kph for P-47M, and 530kph for P-47D22. P-38 seems to be affected too. No other prop was found to have the same issue on speed drop near sea-level.

Those changes are not shown in the data-mine, no FM changes were found to contribute to these changes. Would like to know what causes it.

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Here’s my test in the P-51D-10


Before: 608 km/h
After: 570 km/h

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That’s not good news for aircraft whose primary attribute is speed.

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How does that make sense? 🤔

They are slow at sea level but magically faster than others at higher altitudes, even though they their engine power doesn’t increase?

I‘ve checked drag related items as well as “MaxSpeedNearGround”, they were unchanged. Currently there’s no explanation on these changes. Furthermore, the F2G seems to be affected too with its sea level speed drops to 630kph.

Maybe all planes are affected? 🤔

No, most of props are unchanged.

Gaijin’s spaghetti coding aside - air is thicker at sea level so getting higher speeds on the deck will require more power than say, 10,000ft. That of course is offset by less oxygen the higher you go so engine performance begins to take a dip unless you start supercharging. Jets are less impacted by this latter bit, but the lesser drag up higher is still a factor.

However, if this is a change for FMs it should be universal - not whacking only a select few aircraft.

This is a bug, ever since the update both the weight and drag that are defined in the weapon file have been added to plane FMs.

For weight this makes no sense as it was definitely already included in the empty mass calculation, for the drag I would assume it was already included in the fuselage or wing drag for internal guns too. But since the m2_late has a "dragCx": 0.013, x6 you get a significant increase in drag.

Not all guns have a drag or weight modifier defined, which explains why only some planes are affected.

The F104S for example can take out its internal m61 in order to launch sparrows, however if you fly the plane with a gun now your top speed is significantly reduced since the drag defined in the gun file as "dragCx": 0.15, is now added on top of the total drag, which is nonsense for an internal gun of course.

In the same vein the A10s are now overweight by 860kg and can only turn at 5.5g max.

I’ve made a bug report about this issue in particular here:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/EFTQg0I1FuW8

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That is because the drag that was introduced comes from the gun files, not the plane. I’ve explained above.

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Okay, thanks - seems a bit daft but hey, there you go.

Any update on this bug?

if gaijin is to introduce gun drag to the FM, all aircrafts should be affected. Now only part of them are involved, which is not understandable.

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Not all guns are assigned with mass and drag, furthermore, the drag from the weapon installation (blasting tube) is already included in the aircraft drag. There’s no reason to include those drag in the FM calculation. The mass too was assigned during the aircraft mass definition(mass distribution with advanced mass = yes). Thus it is a bug.

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Well, it’s Gaijins way of implementing changes.

One after another to break as many vehicles at a time as possible and piss off as many players as possible.

Remember how they implemented realShatter one gun at a time, making them useless compared to guns who didn’t have it yet?
Turret baskets?

Now it’s time for gun drag.

But how does that even make sense?

Yeah the drag should increase, if you mount additional guns but it shouldn’t effect planes with default armament.

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Ironically the Cannon Mustangs’ 20mm has no weight or drag, so 3.7 Mustang can outrun P-51D-30 at sea level now.

They closed the previous ticket as duplicate of an unrelated issue, opening another one: Community Bug Reporting System

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Drag decreases at higher altitudes becasue the air becomes thinner

Yeah but they are supposed to be faster than other aircraft.

But it seems to be a bug with added drag from .50cals.

It seems like Gaijin got bit by inconsistently modeling/coding weapons and drag… and with something like 1200 aircraft in the game, it might take a moment to fix that if they’re trying to change the way weight/drag are calculated and handled in game.

They just need to revert the change that’s causing this bug first.

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