One Spawn Quitters

@FlyingDoctor

I don’t fault you for your competitive spirit. Truly, I don’t.

But here’s the thing that makes such spirit entirely irrelevant in WT: Gaijin.

There is no true level of competitiveness in War Thunder because Gaijin has made it so.
Russian Bias.
Piss-Poor map design that makes spawn camping/sniping as easy as breathing.
The horrible BR compression.

Those top 3 issues alone take the concept of competition and throw it off the cliff. There are also other issues that affect the concept like FNGs buying their way into top tier, but now with those people getting back-ups - well, it’s not the most immediate point. I could write an essay on it all, but I just don’t care to. As WT is, it’s far too imbalanced and unenjoyable to even consider taking seriously in a competitive light, so taking such issue with ODLs is a waste of energy.

There are far bigger bones to pick with Gaijin.

7 Likes

Because it is. The game shouldn’t have the same spawning points for low and high BR games.

Poland is one of the examples. While players don’t shoot immediately at enemy spawn on 5.7 BR they do it almost instantly on 10.x BR as vehicles are speedy and can get into shooting position faster than players going from spawn to cover.

Another example is Mozdok Domination where I got killed approx 10 secs in a game from enemy spawn by vehicle using thermals.

Maps are the root of most issues because they are exactly the same for all BRs.

2 Likes

Maybe you’re actually unknowing about the design of the maps and the points I just raised…

Just because a spawn point is listed, doesn’t mean you have to use it, nor is it to be safe after a minute or 3…

Just because you die fast, doesn’t mean it’s actually the maps fault.

Actually its exactly the map design fault for both counts you listed.

Thats why there is game level designer department in every game company which tests maps/levels before those are released. Shooting from spawn to spawn is big NO for any game.

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Maybe you just don’t get it… This could be a shared and common problem, of only seeing one way to look at something because you want to look at it in that manner.

You are the testers, and you can report it.

You can easily report this sort of thing, especially if you can demonstrably show how it is a bad thing, other than just you dying.

Right here:

I assume You have no idea how to fix spawn-camping issues (since You don’t recognize that it is a problem to begin with, aside from contradictive suggestions ranging from getting good and not playing), here is my suggested solution from a different thread:

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You said Psychics are not needed:

So…
Could You make up Your mind, please?

Nation bias doesn’t exist. Especially when Sweden, Germany, and USA are better tech trees.
Less than half the BRs are compressed, it’s still at least 1.7 BRs, but it’s not “horrible”.
Clearly not causing ODL.

Okay…

How can they be better, if bias doesn’t exist?

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Vehicle introduction with minor differences.
Germany & USA have CAS on top of great tank lineups for example.
And of course Sweden has THE best tank lineup.
But BRs balance things.

Bias would be intentionally arming one nation above others, but that’s not what happens.
People claimed German bias before, but won’t now even tho Germany is in a better spot than the Soviets again.
Of course, bias doesn’t exist.
It’s just that vehicles were finished in different manners, and Germany has a stronger assist unintentionally.

And it was reported numerous times. Berlin map was reported numerous times, Poland was reported numerous times, Eastern Europe was reported numerous times, some Mozdok versions were reported.

But point is it shouldn’t seen by users. Thats why there is game level design department which should see that and thats whay maps are badly designed.

Using the same spawn points for vehicles with 300HP on average and 1300HP on average should not be the same in the first place. Spawn points for whicles with optical sights and no laser designators should not have the same spawn points as vehicle which has all modern tehcnology.

1 Like

So, lineup suitability for matches.

Essentially.
And for air, Gaijin got better at coming out with better parity vehicles.
Tho we’re in the final jump with ARHs and IRCCMs, so they might make one final big mistake, but here’s hoping they don’t, and no one’s experience is ruined cause say Gripen at 12.3 had too strong of AMRAAMs, and a rush for 12.7 is required.

I’m absolutely clear in my statements.

The fact that you’re trying to make out I said something I didn’t, shows how desperate you are to quell even the simplest opposition to your victim stance.

Clear for who? Maybe for You, but I fail to find consistent train of thought or logic…

That was my interpretation and an attempt to understand Your point of view. And it seems that I’ve failed to understand what are You trying to say.
Trying again…
So if I wasn’t “…desperate… to my victim stance”, I’d not hang around in the forums? Or what would I be doing, wise sir or madam?

Back up? Bold of You to assume that I have friends…

But anyway, this kind of behavior would indicate that there are problems with game modes. Or some other technical issues.
1st thought to mind is… should helicopters be present in ground forces?

I asked for instructions, on how should, ideally, according to You, a (not desperate) person should act.
This response, however, is not an instruction and… not really helping You, in Your… supposed crusade to improve the playerbase and it’s habits.
If anything, these responses appear as rather mean, if not downright hostile.

So, Your advice is in this one?:

For reference…

https://wiki.warthunder.com/Karelia_(Ground_Forces)

Tank mode area is 1.3X1.3 km nominally. Which makes the map suitable for low rank battles, but higher ones tend to be in a quite claustrophobic environment (German tanks tend to have better performance at high ranges - like Tigers and panthers.)
The left side partially provides long range opportunities, but overall, it is a close-quarters kind of map (and frankly, most maps in the game are like that).

If it’s the other one You’ve quoted that supposed to offer advice…

One way to alleviate this would be to hide the actual score and scoreboard from players.
That would be an interesting option for realistic and simulator battles… It would get in the way for finding bugs, reports of real and other forms of cheating, not to mention being a source of confusion, though.

Hm…
I’d like to read a detailed list of player faults and game faults.
Since there are (very) few game faults, I’m sure it should be (very) easy for You to list them, right @FlyingDoctor ?

I… don’t follow.
Close Air Support, depending on rank and capabilities, can take out quite a lot of vehicles. And the thing is, not everyone can play planes in a tank game. I am not surprised some want to have a tank-only mode.
Should everyone be acquainted with the plane controls in warthunder? Ideally, yes. But, for some folks, flying is an insurmountable task.

And we’re back to the same quote. Anyway…
So, if we assume that the scores and ticket counts are hidden (no psychics, as You said), yet, it is for some reason apparent that the team lost. So… What to do when lost?
As for the details - flanking… Some highly mobile vehicles can rush in and flank, others, being slow, can only dream of meaningfully flanking. The capability to flank really depends on vehicle first, next would be the player’s style of play, and the last factor are map nuances.
Joining late is… matchmaker issue, right? Or is it the player’s fault for not clicking the battle button at the right time?
Team being unaware - With the assumption that scores are going to be hidden, most teams are going to be like this. Though, perhaps they will focus more attention towards flanks and actual battle, now that scores are nothing to look at, eh?

Roeports were made with actual examples which clearly show bad map design.

Karelia is one of the maps which was released at ground forces start. Its OK up to 2.7, OK-ish up to 5.7 but after that as bad as map can be. Frozen Pass is even worse. OK up to 2.7, after that complete abomination of a map.

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If Gaijin were to make changes, such as;

  1. Either spread out more BRs (1 to 50 without any decimals),
  2. Shorter BR spread in each match,
  3. Scoring that actually rewarded teamwork
    … and made their game a lot more fun to play for everyone, they’re worried that people won’t pay for premium time anymore, as grinding would not be as “grindy” anymore. The current balance encourages people to pay for premium, to escape the grind.
2 Likes

You know, no one want to fight a bound-to-lose match against top tier Russia