you mean MICA NG on Rafale? because Meteor MLU was cancelled
Oops fixed now, sorry I was just referring to base meteor
The maps are too small for these missiles anyway.
Perhaps. I’m just proposing a roadmap (maybe someone has a better one). Where to stop would be decided later.
Meteor has No Escape Zone of around 60km. Good luck with that.
there are 100km NEZ claims too
So if you had your way then you would make it de-facto impossible to notch in that scenario even with chaff.
So do you want this timeline to be fully realistic and the common player strategy? Where MAR for AMRAAM is 14 Nautical Miles / 25km? And where basically any shot inside of that is very high probability of kill?
Basically when we dive into the details I am willing to bet that the level of minimum difficulty you seek is more or less removing notching as a viable tactic for most players.
Also your little diagram shows the “correct” option as going cold at 25km. Like did you even read it?
Because you were in an advantageous position.
Notching still exists in that scenario, but you can’t benefit from it, if you already benefit from a higher energy state.
You asked how can you defeat missiles kinematically in that scenario as a guy that’s higher, now you spin it that I’m saying these should be the only methods to defeat them. I’m disappointed.
It was only to show what do I mean by going slightly cold if you misjudge. How it looks like more or less. So you can see that overall you’re getting closer. You can erase everything and leave just the line.
If something is too difficult to do and has marginal effectiveness then most players will not use it as a tactic. This is not a hard concept to grasp.
But you have to go cold to defeat the missile? Which means you have to give up position to an attacker. So this doesn’t show how to defeat one without giving up position.
And if you look at the 2nd video you’ll see me defeating missiles launched at 25km or less and doing it without chaff. So are notch gates too big even before the use of chaff? Do they need to be set lower than that?
You didn’t understand. They should depend on the conditions.
Notching will be too hard to do if you’re up high, the guy with the energy advantage. You will have to resort to kinematic defense.
Notching will be a viable tactic if you’re down low, the guy who’s being attacked.
That stops the snowball effect you were talking about and creates healthy attacker-defender dynamics.
If you misjudge and don’t maneuver enough or get a bit too close, then yes, you pay the price of giving away some position. Still not nearly as much as if you were to immediately turn around 180 degrees and straight up run away.
The thing is, you want to collapse a skill into a single correct sequence of actions.
How much lead should you give your guns? It depends, it’s a skill.
Why will notching be possible when you’re at a lower energy state at a lower altitude when ground clutter is not an issue? Is it because is in pulse mode when top down?
PD radars are still affected by ground clutter.
The more ground clutter there is, the easier it is to notch the missile. The purpose of chaff is to add more clutter and make it easier to notch, but chaff alone is not enough.
Except down low notching also needs to be made harder. This is something you have been dodging.
Should down low notching difficulty be increased to be as difficult as chaffless notching currently is? It’s a simple question.
I don’t think this applies to both pizza and aesa radars… but they don’t in war thunder for balance which is fine with me.
I’m not dodging it, I said I don’t know and we would find out by making it progressively harder.
I would have to play and test to know.
You can literally test it right now. Play the game and don’t use any chaff.
hello gaijin currently there is counter play to me pressing the fire missile button please remove this counter play from the game thank you
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/del
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“Make notching harder so that BVR-oriented american planes can compete!” crowd when they get domed by a Eurofighter that is a much better BVR platform or when the inevitable PL-15/Meteor/R-37M get added and America goes back to suffering 10x worse than before
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The whole chaffless notch point i think isnt a great metric. Not having hard numbers to compare is really just vibe baised comparisons.
I will say though, reading through whats said i agree with Squish with the points i think hes geting at the look up questions. Removing the abilities to defend in look up to position only is a over correction. We cant remove the ability to notch in either situation. If you force someone to only run away then that isnt a good choice.
My whole point in this thread really boils down to individual DL overhalls, not buddy, and mainly improving that point in both look up and look down.
This allows both parties of either side of an engagement to have more options in a fight. But to remove the ability to notch for either wouldnt be a good choice.
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I think he’s getting at the fact that if notching was just made more difficult, good players would just adapt to the new difficulty and remain in the current gameplay loop. He has shown he can already do a chaffless notch reliably.
It would also keep around the snowballing we have right now, but now the disparity between an experienced and inexperienced player is even bigger.
However, if it was removed completely, long range missiles would be too strong.
That’s why I think making it near impossible with energy advantage, and possible for the people being pressured, is a good attacker-defender dynamic.
If you are higher than the enemy, your missile has more range/energy than his, so you can easily drain its energy by maneuvering, without turning away, at least the ones we have in the game.
You can also dive and lower yourself to the enemy’s level, to just notch it just like he can.
DL is a good thing to improve, because it requires effort/skill to maintain, unlike fire and forget.
It’s one of the more radical changes just like third-party data link, and definitely not the first step.
I’m not hard set on implementing everything I mention, I just throw things on the table to choose from.