Meh energy. Just float
Making games like this impossibe - in your version the first missile gets me. Hopefully these changes are never implemented
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This is the invincibility of the Rafale or Mirage 2000 I was talking about. Exactly what makes the game unbalanced.
Yesterday i played like 20 games, and without exaggeration I tell you the entire team was dead before the merge in like 15 games… And now u want to decrease the effectiveness of notch. Fantastic. U are gonna make Air, like naval. Unplayable mode. Spawn, climb, fire all loadoat, land, go to the lobby, repeat. There are people doing it already… Imagine with this changes.
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To be fair they’re just rushing straight into a MICA slinger, tf are they expecting lol
I’m still of the opinion that other Fox-3 seekers should be buffed to MICA level for air rb at least
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They have to get closer to kill him though, because any long range Fox 3 the Mirage can just notch.
My point is that even if you removed chaff that the dynamic of experienced players just vertically notching all of the 20+km launched missiles will remain exactly the same, and the intent of this thread is to make that not the “de-facto” option against skilled players.
The whole point of the 20km missile is supposed to make me do the LARP-er Banzai/Skate tactic and try to force a realistic BVR timeline that starts 50+km out.
So if the goal is to force everyone to primarily rely on Banazai/Skate then notching basically has to be reduced in effectiveness to a point where it is a last ditch effort and something that might work if you do everything absolutely perfectly. To make it so that players like myself or SimplySinful would consider that then you basically just have to reduce the angle gate from the around 30 degrees / 20 m/s closure that it is now to something like 10 degrees / 10 m/s closure.
Where do you think this would leave the rest of the players in the game? They’re getting slammed. If they remove multipath and MCM to actually attempt to force people to “learn to play” they are getting slammed even faster and getting slammed right at their spawn.
If you had said that we should reduce chaff notch mechanics to be as currently effective as no-chaff notching is now, and then reduce no-chaff mechanic to even smaller…people would tell you that you are a bloody moron and that it would ruin the game. But that is basically what would have to happen for LARP-er fantasy world to come to the game; and then they wouldn’t play it anyways.
The point is to make the game balanced, not enact some fantasy. Obviously it would be better if we didn’t have to make artificial buffs like make AIM-120s pull unrealistic 45Gs or something.
Do you agree that planes that lack HOBS missiles aren’t competitive in the current meta?
They have to either stick to medium range and avoid close range, or notch till merge and win the df
The latter being really damn hard to do
Instead of this, gaijin should work on fixing sim and incentivising getting better at the game over botfarming first.
Actually, this works for all gamemodes, not just air sim
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Still the chance to kill the Mirage is low.
Often planes with HOBS missiles also have better flight models, like Rafale, Su-27SM or Su-30SM/SM2 if you know how to use thrust vectoring.
Not to mention you start the dogfight from a losing position.
Even if you can rate fight them, rate fighting is highly susceptible to 3rd parties, unlike radius fighting.
Perhaps planes that lack HOBS missiles could use a buff to their flight models (or nerf overperforming ones, delta canards I’m looking at you), and balance it that way. However, I don’t think people would like that, especially Sukhoi fans.
Luckily that aircraft (in the clip) is a Mirage, the 27SM could definitely have forced a win in that scenario imo.
But I get your point.
Starting from the losing position is definitely the main problem, which is why I pointed out how that is a really hard fight for the plane engaging the Mirage.
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The Eurofighter doesn’t have HOBS missiles and yet it is still competitive. I would argue that it is one of the best planes in Air Sim right now.
In the past 2-3 days of actually playing the game I have ran into maybe 2-3 players that can actually engage in notch-relaunch-notch cycle well enough that things come down to a dogfight or IR missile range. By comparison there are probably around 2-3 players in each lobby I have been in that use MCM and pretty much every game I have been in has had engagements happen right off the runway with somebody at 10km shooting down towards the spawn.
I’ve already played the game in its worst states; the current balance is far from it.
The Eurofighter is an exception to the rule, because everything else on it is so good, and still it’s not as competitive as Rafale or Su-30. Look at F-16s or F-15s, or even F-18s or Gripens. We can add F-15EX right now and it would be trash.
Basically anything that has AIM-120s can compete only if it has a busted flight model and can survive till merge and win the dogfight. You might as well fly with Fox 2s only.
This is a gross exaggeration. The number of players even capable of surviving to get to the dogfight is vanishingly few.
An F-15C has a better chance in a dogfight against a Eurofighter than the MiG-29SMT had against F-16C when deck hugging and IRCCM was the name of the game.
Hey, back in the day we were told that the R27ER more than made up for the fact that the SMT didn’t have a flight model and that 9M was completely invisible.
Heck yeah +1. Let’s destroy ASB more than it already is.
On a serious note. No. Reduce multi-pathing by about half again, say 30 meters. Also, get rid of iron doming, or considerably reduce the abilty to MCM. Keep notching the same. Making things harder will make most players just not play SB anymore, especially the ones that are more casual. Just reduce multi-pathing so they can still fly flat maps just fine.
Then add more sim maps, like Pradesh and Pyrenees, then re-work ASB maps objectives as well by adding destoy/defend factories and oil refineries to hit, fixing surveillance to fly higher especially at higher BR, add destroy/defend train convoys at props to early jets BR.
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Yes, these would have to be done to not make the game actually worse, it’s already been discussed, so don’t worry.
It’s not about making notching harder. It’s about making notching less effective, less powerful.
It’s about changing the meta, so that long range/less maneuverable missiles are also competitive.
Then people would just play flat maps even more. Multipathing should have equal usefulness across all maps.
No correlation with the topic.
You can always say X is more important than Y. I think instead of arguing which one is more important, it’s better to talk about both in their respective threads. More, not less.
So here’s my take. I’m sure you understand how big current matches are and there is almost always a guarantee that more than 1 missile is coming at you. Top tier is an absolute cluster and this has become a very notable issue. Nerfing multipath and chaffing would only make sense if the matches were smaller and the scale isn’t so ungodly overwhelming.
As of right now, there is absolutely no reason to nerf notching, because of just how many interactions you will have in such a short period of time. The average match in Air RB mind you barely reaches 10 minutes.
What needs to happen is that player count needs to decrease, or simply have varying levels of difficulty depending on the player count. What you end up doing nerfing notching is make the gameplay even less enjoyable as it is.
Also something else to keep in mind. You’re nerfing something that wouldn’t neccessarily even have to be nerfed if other problems were addressed before it. G-limit for example. A lot of these planes are able to pull into the notch quite easily and the pilots sustain well over 9gs. But see when the whole g-limiter for the F-16 was talked about, people had an outrage.
A lot of problems that you may be experiencing now, are the cause of other problems that sometimes the players themselves don’t want changed.
APHE is another great example of this. APHE currenetly was voted to stay unrealistic as it currentely is in-game, shocking for a playerbase that demands realism. The consequence of this is vehicles like the Yak-9k imploding anything they see, just becuause of how APHE works. Then the players solution is too only mess with the performance of that plane or weapon alone, because changing how APHE works would nerf everything else. Which at that point, is now being selective.
The reasonign behind that? Because people want fast paced gameplay, which comes at the expense of varying mechanics. Unrealistic G loads, unrealistic weapon preformance for one shot kills, etc. etc. The list goes on. Then trying to fix all that by trying to apply realistic measures after the fact. It just doesn’t work.
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So making notching harder. Any way you slice it, that’s exactly what it is.
It would have equal usefulness. Except on flat maps, like Denmark or Sinai, It’d still be easy to MP. But say Spain, Afghanistan or Rocky Canyon, It’d be more difficult. Essentially reducing MP would make it more difficult to do so on non-flat maps with terrain, and barely any harder on flat maps. Which would make players that already spam flat maps, stay on flat maps, as it’s already what they do. But players that enjoy the challenge would choose more maps with terrain, like they also already do. It would only make MP slightly more difficult and abused less.
Simply adding what else is a problem in ASB