Mowag Piranha IIIC DF90: Belgium's Warrior on Wheels

Would you like to see this in-game?
  • Yes, don’t care how
  • Yes, as a researchable vehicle
  • Yes, as a premium/event/squadron vehicle
  • No
0 voters
Where would you like to see this vehicle?
  • BeNeLux tree
  • French tree
  • Other
  • I said no
0 voters

Hello everyone, in this suggestion we’ll be having a look at the vehicle that is currently Belgium’s main direct-fire vehicle: the Piranha IIIC DF90.

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The Piranha IIIC DF90 was the result of a program run in the 2000s to replace Belgium’s fleet of Leopard 1 vehicles. These tanks at the time had not only been in service for a long time but they were also deemed too expensive for the nation’s military budget. A rather controversial selection process eventually selected the Swiss-made Piranha IIIC chassis combined with an LCTS 90MP turret. This turret is made by the Belgian company Cockerill and contains a medium-pressure 90mm cannon as its main armament. The resulting vehicle was named DF90, DF being an abbreviation for “Direct Fire” and 90 being a reference to its caliber. Most other nations which field similar vehicles have instead chosen to equip them with 105mm or above caliber guns, but the Piranha chassis was supposedly not capable of dealing with the recoil of such a weapon. An initial order of 40 vehicles of this type was made and the type officially entered service in 2008, but supposedly only 18 are left in active service. While on paper a rather capable vehicle, the type has been plagued with issues in its service life. It has also been criticized for lacking cross-operability with other NATO members thanks to its unusual 90mm gun. As a result, it is soon to be replaced by the French ERBC jaguar, less than 20 years after its introduction.

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As mentioned before, the vehicle’s main armament consists of a 90mm cannon capable of firing APFSDS-T and HESH-T rounds (although it has experienced issues firing APFSDS rounds irl, that should not be a problem in War Thunder). It can carry up to 50 rounds, 20 of which are in the turret, the rest of the rounds are in the hull. The cannon is manually loaded, with the commander doubling as the loader. This brings the crew of the vehicle down to 3. Additionally, the turret comes equipped with a coaxial 7.62mm FN machine gun, another machine gun is also often seen on the commander’s hatch. The two-man turret comes integrated with a laser rangefinder, gunner and commander thermals, a ballistics computer, and a 2-plane stabilizer. Total weight of the vehicle is fairly normal for a vehicle of this type at around 19.5 tons, with a maximum weight of 22.6 tons. The 8-wheeled vehicle is powered by a Caterpillar C-9 engine which puts out around 395 horsepower, giving the vehicle a power-to-weight ratio of around 17hp/ton, and a maximum speed of 105km/h. However, good mobility comes at a cost, and that cost is armor. The DF90 is very lightly armored, by default offering protection only against small-arms fire (up to 7.62mm guns). It is also a rather large vehicle, at 7.77m long, 2.93m high and 2.72m wide. This large size combined with light armor makes it a rather fragile vehicle that’s well suited for fire support and flanking operations.

General characteristics:

  • Crew: 3 (driver, gunner, commander)
  • Weight: 22 - 24 tons
  • Length: 8.21m
  • Width: 2.72m
  • Height: 3.33m
  • Engine: 1x Caterpillar C-9, producing 395hp
  • Power-to-weight: +/-17.48hp/t
  • Maximum speed: 105 km/h
  • Range: 600-800km
  • Armor: protection against up to 14.5mm AP ammo

Armament:

  • 1x Mk.8 Cockerill 90mm cannon.
    • APFSDS-T rounds (150mm RHA at 2000m & 60°, 300mm RHA at 2000m & 0°)
    • HESH-T
  • 1x coaxial 7.62mm FN machine gun
  • 1x roof-mounted 7.62mm FN machine gun

Systems:

  • Stabilizer: yes, 2-plane
  • Laser-rangefinder: yes
  • commander-sight: yes
  • commander override: yes
  • thermals: yes, gunner (second generation thermals) & commander (third generation thermals)
  • laser warning system: yes

In-game:

This vehicle is comparable to other vehicles of its class such as the Centauro, WMA-301, … It is a highly mobile vehicle that is best used to outflank and outmaneuver the enemy, after which you can use your smaller caliber gun to pummel them from the sides and rear. A vehicle like this is useful and enjoyable no matter which nation it is placed in. The DF90 could be an important vehicle for a potential BeNeLux tree, or it can serve as a premium or gap-filler in an already existing tree such as France.

Sources

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/piranha_IIIc_df90.htm

Piranha-IIIC-Familie (BE)

Army Guide

Piranha DF90

WarWheels.Net-Belgian Piranha 3C DF90 FSV Index

http://www.strategic-bureau.com/piranha-df90-val-belgique/

Piranha IIIC AIV In Belgian Service ~ Pt4 | Joint Forces News

https://johncockerill.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/John-Cockerill_Defense_LCTS90_EN.pdf

http://www.mecar.be/content.php?langue=english&cle_menus=1156856615

Images

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2 Likes

+1 for Benelux, what APFSDS does it use?

1 Like

Probably this one?
https://www.armscom.net/products/90mm_mk3_apdsds_t_m652a1
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i doubt it uses the old Mk.III cannon

It actually says in the suggestion that it uses a 90mm cockerill mk8 cannon

For the round, it seems likely that it’s supposed to use the Mecar M690A1 round.

3 Likes

Definitely +1 for BeNeLux

Is there a time table or something like that to decide which cannon 90MP and/or 90LP turrets using ?

1 Like

MP stands for Medium Pressure, LP for Low Pressure

MP sales brochure: https://johncockerill.com/en/defense-2/weapons-systems/cockerill-lcts-90mp/

image

1 Like

You got me wrong, I know the difference between MP and LP. I’m asking, is there a way to know which version/variant of main gun they are using. Like MP turret could be armed with Mk.III, Mk.IIIM or Mk.VIII etc.

The easiest way is to google search the vehicle, and find things like this -

Piranha IIIC DF90 Fire Support Vehicle | MilitaryToday.com :
image

1 Like

Definitely going to upvote this big boy, would be really cool to have in game with a future BeNeLux tech tree.

2 Likes

I would recommend BeNeLux to become a sub-tech-tree for France, the same way Norway did for Sweden and South Africa for Britain.

1 Like

+1 for BeNeLux! I love these Piranha’s.

Can’t this one also fire the Falarick 90 ATGM from its gun?

Technically yes but i don’t think it’s used in service

1 Like

Hope to see along with any future ERC90 Sagaie +1

2 Likes

The Piranha IIIC DF90 has an empty weight of 22 tonnes and a combat weight of 24 tonnes.
Here are the specifications:

The DF90 is armed with the Cockerill Mk.8 rifled gun, also known as the CKL 90 MP. Note the inscription on the breech block.

The Piranha IIIC DF90’s turret is Cockerill’s LCTS-90, and its Fire Control System (FCS) for 90 mm turret provided by Elbit Systems Electro-optics (Elop), includes a Dual-Axis Stabilized Line-of-Sight (DAS) gunner’s sight and a Commander Advanced Panoramic Sight (CAPS).
LAAD2011_CMI



The gunner’s DAS has ELOP’s TADES-U second-generation thermal imaging elbow sight with two FoV, and the thermal image is displayed in the gunner display unit.




TADES-U

The commander’s CAPS which also used on Merkava Mk.4, has a CCD TV and a more advanced third generation thermal imager for observation.



CAPS_1

There is no doubt that the CKL 90 MP (Mk.8) gun is capable of firing APFSDS rounds, designated as M690A1 or M690A2.



M690A2

It is worth noting that the DF90’s LCTS-90 turret is not equipped with automatic loader, and the commander loads rounds from the semi-ready rack on the rear of turret. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdhiYf0Sy-U)


Unlike new LCTS-90MP turret, which is equipped with a bustle-mounted autoloader to load Falarisk 90 ATGM. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xXUKLwmagc)



4 Likes

As I mentioned, technically the Piranha IIIC DF90 cannot fire the Falarisk 90 ATGM due to the lack of an autoloader.

2 Likes

Excellent information with good sources! Thank you very very much! I’ll go through it all and update the suggestion step by step where necessary.

Huh, so it’s impossible to manually load a Falarick 90? Pity.

I always wondered what optics were being used. I thought they were would’ve been German considering the use of the PERI-CDR sight used on earlier LCTS-90MP turrets:

Spoiler

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As well as the use of EOTS III on later Belgian projects:

Spoiler

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Good work. I probably would’ve never looked in the Israeli direction.

1 Like