Making Phantoms Great Again

[HazelPam7769]

𝐑𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐨𝐦𝐬 𝐏𝐥𝐚𝐜𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐖𝐚𝐫𝐓𝐡𝐮𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫

This post is a summary of the changes I believe should be made to the Phantoms in War Thunder. Over time, many Phantom variants have been left behind due to missing equipment and outdated loadouts. As newer aircraft have been introduced, these issues have only become more noticeable, leaving several Phantoms less enjoyable and less competitive than they should be.

The changes proposed here focus on improving gameplay and overall balance. They would make these aircraft enjoyable to play again without making them overpowered.

Once proper battle rating decompression is implemented, the more advanced Phantom variants at 12.0 can be moved up to 12.3. That would allow these improvements to be introduced without creating long-term balancing issues. It benefits both players and Gaijin by improving the current gameplay experience while leaving room for healthier matchmaking environment in the future.

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𝐈𝐬𝐫𝐚𝐞𝐥

Kurnass 2000

• Reduce Battle Rating from 12.3 ➜ 12.0.

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𝐉𝐚𝐩𝐚𝐧

F-4EJ Kai Phantom II

• Reduce Battle Rating from 12.3 ➜ 12.0.

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𝐆𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭 𝐁𝐫𝐢𝐭𝐚𝐢𝐧

Phantom FGR.2

• Add AIM-9L Sidewinders.
• Add Skyflash SuperTEMP missiles.

F-4J(UK) Phantom II

• Add ALE-40 countermeasures.
• Add AIM-9L Sidewinders.
• Add Skyflash SuperTEMP missiles.

Phantom FG.1

• Reduce Battle Rating from 12.0 ➜ 11.7.

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𝐆𝐞𝐫𝐦𝐚𝐧𝐲

F-4F Early

• Add countermeasures to make the aircraft viable again.

F-4F

• Increase Battle Rating from 11.0 ➜ 11.3.
• Add AIM-9L Sidewinders.

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𝐔𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐒𝐭𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐬

F-4S Phantom II

• Add AIM-9L Sidewinders.
• Add one AN/ALE-37 countermeasure pod to maintain balance.

F-4J Phantom II

• Add AIM-9L Sidewinders.
• Add one AN/ALE-37 countermeasure pod to maintain balance.

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𝐀 𝐂𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐞 𝐄𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐏𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐨𝐦 𝐍𝐞𝐞𝐝𝐬

𝐎𝐔𝐓𝐄𝐑 𝐖𝐈𝐍𝐆 𝐃𝐑𝐎𝐏 𝐓𝐀𝐍𝐊𝐒!

We Need Outer Wing Drop Tanks for Every Phantom Variant! This has been requested by the community for years, and it is long overdue. These drop tanks already exist on many other aircraft in-game, and these tanks were a standard part of many Phantom loadouts. Adding them would greatly improve gameplay, especially for Phantom variants without an internal gun.

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F-4J(UK) Phantom II. Historically Accurate Missile Loadout and Quality of Life Improvements (PART 1)

𝐈𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 The British F-4J(UK) is a premium aircraft in War Thunder that has struggled to remain competitive for quite some time. Despite sitting at a Battle Rating where it regularly faces much newer aircraft, it has seen very little attention since 2022. This suggestion focuses on improving the aircraft through historically documents rather than artificial adjustments. The goal is not to make the F-4J(UK) and other British phantoms stronger than its contemporaries, but to ensure it accura…

Add Historically Supported Equipment to the U.S. Navy F-4J & F-4S Phantom II (PART 2)

𝐈𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 This suggestion focuses on historically documented equipment that was available for the U.S. Navy F-4J and U.S. Marine Corps F-4S Phantom that is currently missing from WarThunder. The proposed additions are supported by official documentation and are intended to improve historical accuracy rather than alter game balance. [Screenshot 2026-07-15 133744] 𝐀𝐍/𝐀𝐋𝐄-𝟑𝟕 𝐂𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐦𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐮𝐫𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐝 The most significant omission is the AN/ALE-37 external countermeasure pod. War Thunder already i…

German F-4F Historical Improvements: AIM-9L Compatibility, and Countermeasures for the Early (PART 3)

𝐈𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 The German F-4F Phantom II is an important aircraft in the history of the Luftwaffe, serving from the 1970s until the introduction of the F-4F ICE modernization programme. In War Thunder, Germany currently operates two Cold War F-4F variants: F-4F Early (BR 10.7) F-4F (BR 11.0) While both aircraft are generally represented well, several historically documented capabilities and equipment options are currently missing or inaccurately represented. This suggestion focuses primaril…

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𝐃𝐨 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐬𝐮𝐩𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐚𝐥 𝐭𝐨 𝐢𝐦𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐯𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐨𝐦s 𝐢𝐧 𝐖𝐚𝐫 𝐓𝐡𝐮𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫?

• Yes, I support all the proposed changes.
• Partially (some changes should be reconsidered)
• No, I do not support these changes.

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I’m also aware that many other aircraft around these battle ratings have been overlooked, and I don’t want to leave them out.

That’s why I’ve created this discussion: to give players a place to talk about other aircraft between 11.3 and 12.3 and discuss possible changes that could help improve balance across these battle ratings.

Forgotten Aircraft Discussion

𝐈𝐦𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐯𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝟏𝟏.𝟑 - 𝟏𝟐.𝟑 𝐁𝐑 𝐑𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐞: 𝐀 𝐃𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐮𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐧 𝐅𝐨𝐫𝐠𝐨𝐭𝐭𝐞𝐧 𝐀𝐢𝐫𝐜𝐫𝐚𝐟𝐭 While creating my previous suggestions, I noticed that many other aircraft around these battle ratings have also been overlooked. I don’t want these aircraft to be forgotten, as many of them still have potential to be improved. This discussion is here as a place for players to share their thoughts on aircraft between 11.3 and 12.3 and discuss possible changes that could improve balance across these battle ratings. Whether …

[AlvisWisla]

The 12.0 Phantoms are already among the better 12.0s in the game.
If given AIM-9Ls, with decompression, they’d move to 12.7 not 12.3.

Moving the most powerful 13.0s [OP 12.7s] to 13.3 [and everything else above] would fix everything related to 12.0s having issues.

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

the only thing i have to say is the F4S should get some form of nerf to keep balance as it is the best 12.0 F4 for most part

[HazelPam7769]

A lot of them wanted the AIM-9L for both.

Add Historically Supported Equipment to the U.S. Navy F-4J & F-4S Phantom II (PART 2)

𝐈𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 This suggestion focuses on historically documented equipment that was available for the U.S. Navy F-4J and U.S. Marine Corps F-4S Phantom that is currently missing from WarThunder. The proposed additions are supported by official documentation and are intended to improve historical accuracy rather than alter game balance. [Screenshot 2026-07-15 133744] 𝐀𝐍/𝐀𝐋𝐄-𝟑𝟕 𝐂𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐦𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐮𝐫𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐝 The most significant omission is the AN/ALE-37 external countermeasure pod. War Thunder already i…

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

yeah well alot of the people on this forum like premiums being OP
or are just oblivious to said vehicles performance

according to said image unless im blind theres no singular option for the F4J

[HazelPam7769]

So if you don’t fully agree with every change, you can select “Partially (some changes should be reconsidered)” and share your thoughts below.

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

thats what i did silly XD

[HazelPam7769]

[AlvisWisla]

F-4S having worse speeds & sustained turn performance is itself an issue over the British Phantoms.

Either way, the best 12.0s in the game don’t need weapon improvements.
AIM-7s/Skyflash for headons, AIM-9 for rear aspect.

Premiums are worse than tech tree variants, which is the case for the F-4S as well.
F-4S isn’t out-dogfighting the vast majority of jets, not even F-4FGs.
F-4J’s lower drag allows for at least slightly better BVR, which is why I have never been interested in F-4S.
If I want a “dogfight” Phantom, I’ll play the Brits.
If I want a BVR Phantom, I’ll play the F-4J.

[HazelPam7769]

thanks mate

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

yeah i just realized there not in same order when you click to vote

[HazelPam7769]

@BACKRAGE44428-live

yeah i just realized there not in same order when you

It’s just weird like that. lol. No worries.

[Busheedoh]

tbh i just want a earlier version of the F-4J more than anything else, give us a F-4J with like AIM-7E, no HMD, AIM-9D or something idk

[Busheedoh]

yes, the solution is decompression

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

@AlvisWisla

F-4S isn’t out-dogfighting the vast majority of jets, not even F-4FGs.
F-4J’s lower drag allows for at least slightly better BVR, which is why I have never been interested in F-4S.

yes while F4S has more drag from its agile eagle its also the most advanced agile eagle in game it gives you way more options if you need them

the gun pod by far contributes 10X more drag than slats do

and just like the F14 the AGILE eagle allows you to out turn most jets for gun shots in first three turns

[HazelPam7769]

@Busheedoh

bh i just want a earlier version of the F-4J more than anything else, giv

You’re not going to believe this.

[HazelPam7769]

Some aircraft on that list are really underwhelming, and I would recommend checking out the British ones in particular, just so you can understand the pain. The new missiles are needed on those jets.

[JoeSpeed52]

If they would (yes, I know, copy-paste) add an F-4E Late and give it all of the CAS options, LGBs, Pave Spike / Tack from the Kurnass and F-111, with a correct late-model cockpit (from the F-4F) at 11.7 or 12.0, and give it much-needed 9L and 7F/M, or give us an F-4G at the appropriate BR i’d also be all for it. I have not and do not plan on playing the F-4J/S or any other nation Phantoms (except maybe eventually Japan), but the current F-4E we have is in an AWESOME spot BR and capability wise. The April Nuke Thunder event showed just how good the 11.3 Phantom is with 9Ls, even if the 7E2 and radar is not as good as other variants / Tech Trees.

Sparrows still LOVE to Sidelobe as long as you keep the radar locked, and do wacky things depending on launch speed and other values. I love the 11.3 F-4E (US TT), I just want a late version. The gun in the nose is SUCH a good tool to use, both in A/A and A/G.

[Alpharius11348]

@JoeSpeed52

If they would (yes, I know, copy-paste) add an F-4E Late and give it all of the CAS options, LGBs, Pave Spike / Tack from the Kurnass and F-111, with a correct late-model cockpit (from the F-4F) at 11.7 or 12.0, and give it much-needed 9L and 7F/M

also fix the radar, it should have much less ground clutter than it currently does
and it has much more ground clutter than most other aircraft at its BR

[JoeSpeed52]

Actually, if you use the DCS F-4E as a reference (which you should, as it’s exceptionally accurate to IRL and the APQ-120) the ground clutter is absolutely an issue, with not much to remedy it in War Thunder.
IRL and in DCS, you can adjust the gain to break out the contacts, but that’s entirely up to the WSO. In ACM/CAA mode, the radar is modified to search a specific area, with less chance to pick up on or lock clutter.

What we have isn’t completely realistic, but it isn’t inaccurate either.
The main issue on the F-4E is it has ZERO doppler filtering, which causes the clutter issue in the first place. The F-5E also has this in SRCH mode, as do other aircraft even at slightly higher BRs in non-doppler modes. This is accurate.