no
it is underperforming in both co altitude detection range look down detection range
https://voljournals.utk.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=14219&context=utk_gradthes
and it is showing much more clutter than it should as proven by the fact that IRL it had some radar navigation/mapping capability, which would be impossible with the current implementation
With due respect, why the heck do you keep calling F-4K/M Spey Phantoms an F-4FG?
F-4K Phantom FG.1
F-4M Phantom FGR.2
F-4J Phantom F.3 (AKA F-4JUK)
If you don’t like F-4K/M, you can just call them Spey Phantom.
That nicknaming is nonsense; it’s on the same level as calling Harrier GR.1/3/7 as AV-8GR, and calling Harrier T.11 as AV-8T. :/
F-4S has significantly better instantaneous turnrate over the F-4M and F-4K.
only way M and K win are if they force a sustained dogfight, which is difficult when the S can end it in a matter of moments.
agree with all of this as the british phantoms are a bit dead compared with the tornado f3 at the same rating, i’d move the f3 up to 12.3/7 and give it aim9m too
In the current state of the game, moving these aircraft up in battle rating wouldn’t be the best thing in the world, especially with the current Su-30 spam. Keeping them where they are for now won’t hurt anyone, and it would allow these much-needed improvements to be implemented without negatively affecting game balance. Moving these aircraft up in battle rating should only be done once proper battle rating decompression has been implemented.
British phantoms could see some love, but the f4j and f4s are good as it is
The only changes I want to american phantoms is the better cockpit for f4j and f4c having cms
british phantoms needs something as they’re hard to grind with just terrible ir missiles. but having aim9m of the early f3 tornado would make it better especially compared with other nations that have irccm missiles at that rating and the fact it regularly goes up against such missiles at 13.0
Here’s the unfortunate part, this may never happen because Gaijin has little incentive to prioritise battle rating decompression. With the success of premium aircraft like the Su-30MK2, Su-30MKK, and others, we could be waiting a long time before decompression becomes a reality.
That’s why I’ve focused on a simpler solution for the Phantom family instead. These are changes that could be implemented now to improve gameplay without waiting for a complete overhaul of the matchmaker.
Unfortunately, it’s also frustrating to see that well-documented reports, backed by historical evidence, are often ignored when they would improve a vehicle. Even some of the biggest War Thunder content creators have spoken out about neglected vehicles or the way they’re implemented, yet very little has changed.
The RDF/LT is a good example. After two years, the only improvement it has received is the addition of smoke grenade launchers.
Some would be moved up to 12.3 while other would stay at 12.0
Too bad instantaneous turnrate gets you dead in air battles.
F-4S can’t end it, because they lack the sustained turn.
Huh… your post has FG typed in as well…
Only those with AIM-9Ls would move up.
No, because the AIM-9L isn’t that great anymore
So… do you share the same opinion about the vastly inferior R-60M as well?
Or is there a double standard?
@SirinKaslana
Me: “13.0 needs decompression.”
AKA AIM-9Gs aren’t the best rear aspect solution for many of those aircraft.
It’s why these Phantoms are 12.0 instead of 12.3+.
Which means you think the things you wrote, since I don’t.
As much as the whole area from 9.0 to 14.0 needs to be decompressed and we need 18 BR brackets to make it happen, its realistically not going to happen because the current compression means Gaijin sells premiums better. So instead of asking for balance changes and accepting the horrible state that planes are in now as a result of this, its better to give them their loadouts so they can compete at their BRs. The Phantom FGR.2 had 9Ls IRL. It needs them to be competitive at 12.0 because 9G/Js are an absolute goddamn joke at this BR and anyone who dies to them needs to go back to 10.0.
The FG.1 didn’t have them so it going back to 11.7 makes sense.
I’ll accept the Tornado F.3 going up in BR if its flight model gets fixed.
It did have them but it’s just for the sake of making it the early version with the way it’s represented by its camo in the game
The FG1/FGR2, aka the FGs, are the best Phantoms in balance.
While F-4J is the best BVR Phantom, the FGs are still better than most other aircraft of and below their BRs in their radar weapons [this includes radar], while sporting superior flight model performance over the GE powered Phantoms.
Even if we gave these 12.0 Phantoms AIM-9P4s [which is honestly the better idea here], they’d still be better than Mig-23MLs due to their radar solution.
AIM-9Gs aren’t difficult to use against targets, far easier to use than R-60s.
But I also don’t use IR missiles against targets that are not afterburning/reheating.
Skyflash DFs? Good?
they’re just slightly better than Aim-7E2s lol
A radar that loses lock when someone flies over a bunch of trees in tracking mode is not a good radar. Even the Mig-21 Bison has a more serviceable radar than that, hell the Mig-23 is better because it can actually keep a lock on targets flying low so it can guide its R-24 in.
I would agree with you if the gunpod didn’t ruin the flight performance, if the Skyflash DF was actually decent and if the radar didn’t lose lock over the dumbest things. “BuT iT hAs SpEy EnGiNeS!” means sweet nothing when their advantage is ruined by a gunpod that is needed to make the plane serviceable and four short range missiles that are annoying to use at best because they lose lock for no reason and a radar that can lose lock in look-down aspect. Not even the F-4S with its HMD suffers this bad. There’s a reason you see more F-4Js, F-4S and the F-4EJ over the Spey Phantoms. Because the Spey Phantoms are bad at their BR. Stock grind is atrocious and they bring a weapons suite from 11.7 into 12.0.
The FGR.2 was so bad I bought the Mig-21 Bison just to skip it entirely. I ended up spading the Tornado F.3 last year leaving the FGR.2 to rot forever and won’t be touching it until it gets better weapons.
By the way, I resubmitted the vote because the font was wrong, annoyingly, and I accidentally left out my reasoning. Sorry about that.
Waste of time.
Good post but your reasoning is wrong.
A little more info would be greatly appreciated as to why
agree with that both british tech tree phantoms are impossible to play without losing thw will to live, definitely needs some help, wouldn’t be so bad if you could 2 aim7s as default in stead of just a gun pod and 2 terrible aim 9ds