UFP as main part getting hit is not strong enough to stable protect from br 6+ threats. I need Patton’s army field uparmoured Sherman. And Thunderbolt VII as prem.
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One of the main reasons that M4A3E2 could be 5.3 is that kv122 is still in 5.3, it is almost like a IS2(1943) If you try to use the ass toward to enemy…
Kinda sad the IS-3 got nerfed because of complaints that the Tiger would struggle versus it. Meanwhile they somehow think its okay to be matched into a King Tiger in a Jumbo 75mm. Ironically with the Tiger having far more tools for dealing with an IS-3.
Guess it just goes to show the loudest voice is the only one that matters in balancing.
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Not at all.
I read through all your posts but you never explained the matters as you were asked but instead shied away from the questions…and other people like @KillaKiwi have taken notice too.
Once again: what is the justification for a 5.7 BR for the 75mm Jumbo if not the armor…why is the M4A3E2 so far from the 3.3 M4A1 if not the Jumbo’s armor?
Yeah…that’s not really a compelling quip to make when the now-5.7 75mm Jumbo has…
- a comparable reload rate
- comparable stabilization
- ‘similar’ mobility (at best)
…as the M4A1 which debuts at 3.3.
When you assess these qualities, the two ways the M4A3E2 (75) most significantly differs from the M4A1 at 3.3 is the Jumbo’s far higher 5.7 BR and its thicker frontal armor…that’s about it.
As the Jumbo’s armor is now situational (even at its home BR of 5.7), the practicality of the M4A3E2 comes into question because the Jumbo doesn’t really offer much advantage over the 3.3 M4A1.
A better phrasing is you cannot fight most 6.7s frontally.
Alright, “it’s an uptier!” after all…yeah, the realities of what happens in that uptier really prove 5.7 is too high:
The problem with “it’s an uptier!” is A) full uptiers are very, very common, and B) the Jumbo must fight a certain way (flanking) to have any hope against many of its 6.7 foes…which makes the Jumbo predictable and easy to defeat.
To successfully attack heavy opposition like a Tiger II or a heavy SPG like a Jagdtiger, a 75mm Jumbo must get a shot in from the side. To do that, the Jumbo must either flank around the foe (possible, but reliant on the Jumbo’s average mobility) or somehow close distance to get onto the foe’s side after a frontal approach (possible, but even less likely than flanking).
In either case, all the foe has to do to thwart the M4A3E2’s attack is to turn toward the Jumbo and the measly 75mm will fail to pen. The foe doesn’t even need backup…but if they do get some…it’s even worse for the hapless Sherman.
Realities like these are why heavier vehicles like the Tiger IIs and SPGs like the Ferdinand are superb choices for the anti-flanker role. Heavy anti-flankers can be positioned on the sides of the map to force vehicles like M18s/M41s/whatever on the flanks into the frontal engagements they’d been trying to avoid.
It is a wise way to play your heavy vehicles to their strengths while depriving the lighter enemies of their own…and anti-flanker doesn’t have to be very fast either.
Because the Jumbo operates like a ‘fat medium tank’ (or even a ‘fat light tank’) by 6.7, the principle remains the same: all the enemy team really has to do to neutralize (if not kill) the 75mm Jumbo is put it in front of them as 6.7s like the German heavies/heavy SPGs simply don’t have to feel worried about that 75mm M3 cannon.
When you understand that reality, you understand why the M4A3E2 is no longer considered an appealing vehicle: it just doesn’t really have anything outstanding to boast for itself.
Without getting into the wider Jumbo discussion, I will say that this is how I mostly use Tiger II and Jagdtiger on maps where very short engagement ranges are the norm. For example, in small Ardennes, I usually go down column 1, which is an almost guaranteed first strike opportunity because I’ll run into a Fiat, T92, or M18 with predictable frequency.
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Thats why 14 germans go up in BR and most of then with previous nerfs intact.
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KV122 is a big glass cannon and its crystal not plate.You are in a 3.7 KV at 5:3 anything that shoots you kills you instantly.5:3 is about right for it.
The M4A3E2 was justabout workable at 5:3 because the gun won’t pen anything it meets from the front unless you are very lucky.Then they moved the Panther up but stupidly moved the M4A3E2 which is ridiculous.
Everytime I think I’m getting the hang of WT they screw about and I fall out of love with it again.Too much time listening to us lot on the forum.Stop messing with the damn BR and sort the old bugs out.
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6.0 might as well be 5.7 and who wants to play the M4A3E2 at 6.7? ODL anybody? No death leavers will be more common.People just saying “Screw this” and bailing out.
tbh I’ve stopped playing the US entirely because the guns just cant pen anything at this point until 6.7. Even then you still don’t have as much pen as the other nations in the game until AFTER 6.7. (excluding APCR but who tf uses that). People whine about the heavies having armor but they are heavies and are supposed to be tough (but not invincible) but don’t take into consideration gun pen values. The issue with the jumbo is it HAD good armor, now its armor is pointless and its gun is too, 104mm of pen vs things with 138mm-237mm of pen with armor that the jumbo cant pen, and where the jumbo faces tanks with 100mm-185mm of armor that if even un-angled at a distance it cant do anything to. . The US ground tree isn’t worth playing, even top tier you’re going to be lol penned because they cant give the Abrams the right armor values as it is still technically classified and you have some of the weakest rounds in the game. (Air tree is absolutely worth the grind though). But the US ground tree as a whole in this game, is not worth it. you have no heavies that can take hits like other nations heavies, (Maybe the T32E1?) but even that one I lol pen when I face it using Germany or USSR and they struggle to pen the heavies and even some mediums in other nations. The US ground tree is just nerf after nerf because people don’t look for weak spots so the tanks get moved up to where their armor doesn’t matter. (6.7 heavies are the exception as they are decent).
The jumbo is just the best example i can think of for this. Maybe the Tiger E at 6.0 also as it get lol penned now too, but they both suffer the same issue, armor that cant survive at its BR unless its facing things from a down tier, and guns that struggle (jumbo more so) to pen anything. and it is going to cause alot of ODL or just people who say “nah f this” and just leave the match. I wish they would fix this but i doubt they will as when the jumbo gets moved it never goes back down. it is now going to be just a tank that doesn’t get played. And eventually the tiger will be too.
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Using those as Anti flank is just an elite way to play, its usually always free kills when you do.
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This thing shouldn’t be same BR as Tiger 1 lol
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The amount of IS3s i front pen is hilarious when i play the KT, they forget that they have a huge weakspot on the front of their tank and at 237mm of pen you can cut through it like butter. But it does suck the IS3 got a nerf because yet again, people dont look for weakspots.
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Is-3 is a joke at 7,3 , but the IS-6 at 7.7 is a not funny joke. It has nothing going for it at 7.7
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I don’t think joke is the right word for it as at 7.7 the IS6 is just a glass cannon because the dart rounds people get. The IS3 has the same issue, Ironically, the things the people complained about with the KT having to face heatfs and missiles doesn’t apply to the IS3 and IS6 i guess, if it isn’t German tanks they don’t care if it gets shafted so it seems.
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Is-6 has less armour than king Tiger with a worse gun , I do not get how it is 7.7
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When War Thunder get it right finally, they go and screw it up.5.3 and 5.7 was great for the Tiger and Tiger E and the Panthers were good two.5.3 was fine for M4A3E2 and it fitted with a neat line up including CAS. Stayed at the same BR for Years so what the hell was wrong all of a sudden?
Should stop fiddling with BR and just get the other areas of the game right hat need attention.At what point do WT say OK we are done here onto the other areas that need work?
This kind of BS is the reason I didn’t renew for another year in the sale.No faith in WT no screwing with the good points of the game.All our line up ups have gone to hell.
The panthers deserved a move. their armor\gun made them essentially heavies. 192mm of pen and armor that was equal to the jumbo aside from the turret but the 76 jumbo is 6.3 with 149mm of pen? how is that fair? the panthers are the only one who deserved a move. (i frequently use the panthers and it was a bully at 5.7 as anything US/Early USSR couldn’t pen it from the front but it could lol pen. Other than that, they shouldn’t have messed with the BR. (I also have a very solid 6.0 line in Germany now).
The panthers hold my Best KD aside from the Tiger 2. You didnt have to worry about much penning you frontally and if you wiggle the turret nothing really could aside from IS2. The panthers fully deserved the move even if i lose the fun of clubbing in them.
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The Panthers never moved in 3 years as far as I can remember.That is about as long as I have been playing,never did the Cobra King which I bought a long time ago at 5.3 so I don’t see why moving them was a War Thunder priority when so many other things are at fault in the game.It seems to have created more problems than it solved.
I had some great line ups for a longtime and now Gaijin F**ked them up.I was going to take another years subscription in the sale now I am not.I dont trust Gaijins meddling enough to spend the cash.They have messed with all the maps as well so experience means nothing now.Nice.
The Jumbo when it was first added was 4.3, then 4.7, then 5.0, then 5.3, now 5.7. Its been a target of BR changes more than any other US tank, i believe it should go back to 5.3 as thats where it was really solid at.
The panthers never moved since they were added which is wild considering their capability in battle. I do believe however they shouldnt go above what they are at now as they would suffer any higher. No tank should be dealing with what the jumbo is. The point of the jumbo WAS its armor, now it doesnt even have that.
I do also feel you on the sale, the only thing i bought was a premium i wanted and thats it. Didnt buy time or anything as i dont know if I’ll enjoy this game much more in the future as they keep ruining the BRs for tanks that have no right to be moved. Not to mention the blantant issue of ignoring cheaters and responding to complaints with “we are looking into it” then doing absolutely nothing and marking it as resolved.
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Yep 5.3 for the Jumbo all day.
The whole idea of raising BR based on kill stats means than kills equals a raise in BR, Yet kills also equals somebody having fun so Gaijin are essentially crapping on those who are enjoying the game.
You have found a good vehicle out of all the crap that is available,have a fun time with it and everybody bitches so it gets f****d up and your fun ends.They then wonder why so many leave the game.
You don’t need to be a statistician to understand that.Which one of my favourite vehicles is next for the chop? In fact which of my favourite maps is about to be ruined? etc etc