Lets talk about the state of Germany

Discussion about the state of Germany in War Thunder

(because apparently this turned into the unofficial Germany thread XD)

Original 23/09/2023 “Sons of Attila” text in spoiler below:


I was initially going to post this earlier but I thought it would be better to wait until after the streams to post this in hopes I that Germany was getting something better and make appropriate corrections. Unfortunately, I had to correct for the worse…

Why? what’s happing regarding the German tree?

After 3 years, Germany finally got a new Rank 7… and it’s barely a side-grade of the 2A5 which Germany got early 2019. So now what? We have to wait another 3 years and hope they give something better than a copy-paste 2A6 (referring to 2A7). So when will Germany get an actual upgrade? 2029? 2032?

Gaijin is already scraping the barrel for minor nations by giving them the most modern prototypes and subtrees, but Germany is not allowed to have the remaining two in service German MBTs for some reason? Not to mention the dozen prototypes/demonstrators.

First Sweden got Germany’s best MBT despite not even needing it since they already had the superior lineup. Now Germany’s most modern IFV with SPIKE and StrikeShield APS is going first to Italy that already has 4 Rank 6/7 IFVs and only recently got the Freccia. All the while Germany only has 2, and the PUMA still not fixed since launch despite the numerous bug reports. What next? Italy is going to get the 2A7HU before Germany gets the 2A7?

"Germany will get the Lynx later”
I ask when? Another 3 months? next year? 3 years? 10 years? And which variant? The ones without Spikes and APS?
Sweden has been sitting with a Ju86 since 2019, Germany still doesn’t have it. Or like the BMD-4 variants were promised to be in the TT and still hasn’t turned up?

Correction: They possibly straight up denied the Lynx to Germany…

The problem is not only the Lynx itself that’s not in the German tree, its also Spike capability and the German StrikeShield APS that’s not present in the German tree either. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like its coming anytime soon.

Germany has had the most amount of vehicles and nation rights removed from it’s tree. Italy, Finland, Hungary, Romania were striped from Germany and the only nation that’s left is Argentina which is incapable of filling any gaps.

There was a 9.3 gap for German attackers? The German Alpha jet would have been the perfect solution, instead Gaijin decided to shove in a Swiss hunter in the tree, and now the brit mains hate Germany for something no-one asked for.

DF105 should have gone to France as well, Swiss hunter should have gone to Britain. It looks like Gaijin is artificially manufacturing hate against Germany and then using it as an excuse to treat Germany this way. Also looks like it’s starting to happen against Britain too.

For the past 3 years, every single top tier aircraft has come a minimum of 3 months AFTER everyone else’s equivalent and arriving DOA in some cases.


This has happened 4 times, with the F-4F, Mig21bis, Mig23MLA and the Mig29A. (I’m betting with the F-4F ICE as well)

During Apex Predators, Italy got both the F-16 and Tornado IDS in the same patch. Germany only got the Tornado IDS. When asked about the German Mig-29, Gaijin said "the model is not ready”. However, this is not an excuse since the US and Italian F16s received model updates in the following update, sky guardians, the same patch the German Mig-29 was added. Why couldn’t Gaijin have copy and pasted the Soviet Mig-29 into the German tree during Apex Predators and updated the model in Sky guardians like they did with Italy and US?

The Chinese player base rightfully revolted because of the treatment they got a couple years ago, now the same treatment has been targeted on Germany.

When are we going to say enough is enough? When Italy gets a Panzerhaubitze 2000 or 2A7HU before Germany?, or when Sweden gets a 2A7NO or Britain gets a 2SG before Germany? This update has already crossed the line, at this point Gaijin is just testing how far across the line they can get away with. This is not acceptable, there has to be change now!

To all the other nation players reading, this sets a horrible precedent, imagine if it was your nation that got this treatment:

  • Hungarian Gripen going to Italy first
  • Indian T-90MS, Su-30 or Rafale going to Britain first
  • Thai VT-4s going to Japan first
  • Polish M1A2 SEPv3 to Germany first
  • F-15s going to Japan/Israel first

Your best and newest vehicles should go to your nation first (or at least the same time), not the other way around!

Addition from the Streams:

  • Both USSR and Hungary got the 2S1
    Both US and China got the OH-58D
    Both US and Isreal get advanced F-16s and Chaparral
    Only Italy gets the Lynx?

  • (So far) PSO isn’t even getting the demonstration camouflage like the Black Night did

For documents/resources, bug report discussion, or general WT discussion (mainly about Germany) come join the German Armour Discord server


I would be happy, cause Japan will receive some love


as said by mike, Germany does not own KF41s and rn they have the PUMA which will in the future get a version added with spikes, you have an equivalent so just let the tree with a nation that does own said vehicle have this


Puma isnt getting spikes now, Italy already has the damn Freccia, and is now getting the Lynx with a German derived APS system, while germany doesnt have a single tank with an APS system at all


Italy has a lot of c&p vehicles from other nations aswell. Saying that they should be unique while having so much c&p themself is ironic


But Germany developed it

US didn’t use the HSTVL
Britain didn’t use the Challenger 2E
Italy didn’t use the OTOMATIC
China didn’t use the MBT2000 (and they’re literally getting it this update)
The list goes on…

Still worse than the lynx since the PUMAs dont have hardkill APS


German players complaining about not getting stuff is rich when they had access to Tow2A long before America and the German owned US vehicles are all better than the US counter parts.


There is a difference between weapons and vehicles. Italy for example owned a plane first with german fire bombs.

Germany has 2 american tanks which are better the m41 and m48. There is an even better m41 in the chinese tech tree and the difference between the m48 is not much.
Now with more bundles for vehicles. US should get the other m48 and m41 late.


This i do not agree with, the PSO is an upgrade, it gets extra hull armor of the swedish tanks + extra side armor + 3rd gen thermals, that is a big upgrade compared to the old leopard tanks
The Problem with the PSO is that the model is bugged and that the turret is floating
The rest i roughly agree with you

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It does not get the extra hull armour of the Strv122s, where did you see that? It’s not even in the modifications tab. Also do you have screenshot or timestamp of the thermals?, because I don’t remember them using the thermals at all with the PSO.


because it is no modification, it has it equipped from the start, and they said it is 3rd gen thermals

The ATTICA 3rd gen imager was tested on the PSO, and is a drop in replacement for the EMES 15 thermal imager

The PSO getting gen 3 thermals was a mistake on Mike’s part it seems because it has gen 1 gunner thermals on the dev server. It didn’t have gen 3 thermals irl so this wouldn’t make sense either.
It’s added armour is mostly useless, the side armour should only provide about 300mm of CE protection and it’s missing the important part at the front.
In my opinion, the PSO should get the option to replace the dozer with more add-on D-Tech armour, which it could do irl. This would make it only slightly better than the Strv 122.


The German m48 is not better than the american one btw, neither is the m41 since its a higher br, just traded the BR for the one heat shell which isn’t even that good.


Not sure about the thermals but it does NOT have the armour, its been replaced for the dozer. Look closely.

Edit: better angle

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it ahs the upgraded hull armor, the lower part were the dozer blade is mounted isnt extra armored yes, but the upper part towards the turret has the increased armor plates

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Leopard 2 PSO never ever entered service so invalid point…

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That armour plate does protect somewhat better than the current German leopards, but not by a significant margin after testing with the strv 122

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The German TT would be a good TT if Germany received the vehicles that were used in a real implementation
But we do not!


That would be based actually
but I agree with the post