Germany does not need a complete subtree, but a subtree with complete defects

Germany has enough ground vehicles to not need a whole new subtree, but lacks good SAMs
The air force is different. Germany had enough aircraft during World War II, but after the defeat of World War II, due to lack of industrial capacity and treaty restrictions, Germany did not have good jet aircraft.
In summary, Germany lacks SAMs as well as ARH-equipped and CAS-capable aircraft.
Germany doesn’t need a whole subtree but several subtrees to complete these things for the German line. Only 3 or a few vehicles need to be added to the tech tree.

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Plenty of people have already been asking for these things in various sizes of sub tech trees on the forum: For the love of god give Germany a competitive top tier jet, Germany needs an additional subtree or here: Lets talk about the state of Germany)

I agree with your reasoning. The Germans are, outside of top tier air, still very much in the ‘big 3’. One or maybe two planes to bridge the gap and give them some new capabilities would be good gameplay-wise. The problem lies in the availability of foreign planes. Most are US-based. (Argentina doesn’t have their F-16’S yet, the Dutch fought the Germans in WWII and are to be in France, Switzerland only has F-5 or F-18 variants, etc.


Of course, training pilots and adapting air bases is not instantaneous. But there is a purchase contract already signed and at the end of the year the first F-16 arrives in Argentina. All this is simply a “formalism”.

Sometimes I don’t understand the argumentative efforts of some people and I’m not saying that for you, it’s just that I read this in several topics these days.

The question is, what is the point under discussion about the Argentine F-16, if Japan has the F-16AJ in its TT?

It seems like “historical accuracy” always applies only to Germany, which is why their air TT sucks…

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Yes - and no, it depends simply on which era you are looking at - and what goals gaijin has with Germany.


  • So imho from 1960 until the end of the Cold War I (Collapse of the USSR 1991) the German Armed forces were quite powerful. Not only regarding numbers of trained soldiers, also regarding quality of military hardware.

  • But after that - there was no Red Army as immanent treat , so paying the cost of the German reunification (2 trillion Euro) had priority.

  • So wt reflects to a certain degree also actual reality. I mean they had more than 2.000 Leopards in service and a few years later ~200. I read some time ago than the UK, France and Germany have currently together maximum ~600-700 MBTs available…

  • Regarding your JP F-16 example - agreed, classical double standards…

Gaijin goals:

  • Imho the see Germany (as a playable nation) as important market, but they follow also a policy to grant them just barely the minimum to remain somehow playable.

  • If you check German WRs in Air RB or Ground RB you see that they are happy to take the money from players willing to play Germany, but except for very few and small exceptions those players do not get an adequate return:

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Agree with your entire post,just something to add.

German TT has all been defanged …from 20/30 mm ammo sometimes performing worse than 7.62 to German bombs having as much power as if they are filled with sawdust, to their tanks in some cases having most important pieces of armor missing.
Any German vehicle or plane that is overperforming (mostly due to skilled players using them) is nerfed almost overnight …best examples Dora,Duck and JU 288.
This is why i stopped buying half arsed German premiums,last one being G91/r4 …nothing says better “Gaijin don’t care” than slowly turning at 50 % of power and both wings falling off due to “excessive stress” .

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I’m not against historical accuracy.

I’m sick of this.

I don’t care about the F-16AJ at all (it’s a game and gameplay has to take priority, although I would have preferred Thai’s F-16).

I’m upset because Gaijin wants German players to suffer how the Luftwaffr would have suffered in a possible war (unusual in a context of the fall of the Berlin Wall).

Where is the historical accuracy benefiting Germany? because I see German tigers facing post-war vehicles with HEAT and impractical prototypes of dubious real reliability, with great features in the game.

Gaijin: if we are going to be precise, put my tigers and panthers in front of the M4A1 shermans and the T-34 1943… or give me a fu**** 4th gen plane with amraam.

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I do agree (to a certain degree) with you last thread, but imho wt and reality are not comparable. Same with accuracy or historical relevance - i mean wt is not a war simulator, it is a game designed to be attractive for minors with access to credit cards.

The game set-up eliminates any approach to be realistic: Neither by numbers or actual combat power.

So nobody wants to play with a 75mm Sherman vs Panters or Tigers and nobody wants to fly with 2 Me 262s vs 16 kill hungry US boys in P-51 D-20s (the D-30 is not credited with any kills, the P-51 H-5 never saw combat) - so the BR system is at least in theory not a bad thing - if it would be fair and actual balanced.

If you have checked Ground RB and Air RB WRs (with the link provided above) the evidence that playing Germany is rather a pain is not a question, it is a fact.

My criticism was simply based on the fact that even as a neutral player without any nation preferences Germany is outside a few and very small niches simply not attractive for more mature players - as they suffer from great popularity at WW 2 BRs (=a hell of rookie players), but were not catered by gaijin with rather too low BRs with their aircraft & tanks.

So as long as you don’t vote with your wallet, nothing will change.

This is really the sort of thing that bothers me the most. Even outside of the air stuff (which is really my main concern, but you covered it well enough that I won’t add to it), you had a lot of the German SPAAs with their AP rounds that apparently were too effective and have since been nerfed, often both with nerfing the rounds and increasing the BRs. Now, you have several examples of other countries getting comparable vehicles and comparable BRs (to the pre-nerf BRs, to be clear).

Nerf to the ammo of German SPAA’s is not biggest problem
If you look where German WWII SPAA’s sit at the moment it is just funny
Kugelblitz had its turret rotation nerfed to the point where it can’t track ANY planes that it is facing
Same goes for any German WWII SPAA …they (kugel /341) are supposed to shoot down planes that are flying 900-1100 km/h.
Add to that well worn Gaijin excuse that German ammunition is fragmenting on impact because of lack of materials in WWII and you got good laugh.

Not to mention that historical accuracy only applies to Germany and in some cases Japan …

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Yeah, you never hear much about Russian armour quality when they bring up resource shortages.
I will definitely acknowledge your point about the ammo.